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Post by svenman on Oct 27, 2011 0:10:25 GMT -8
i miss the levine period when lori and brandi worked there!
from some of the other points raised above, i'd never recommend buying work from a gallery that you want to 'form a relationship with' that you are not 100% into. it doesn't do anyone any favours. i'd also suggest that a good gallery would be the ones wanting to 'form a relationship' with existing and potential collectors.
i've not had too many bad experiences aside from a little bit of dishonesty from an LA gallery during one sale. i wrote that off as bad luck and have only had relatively few dealings with them since.
other than that, i've always enjoyed the experience and the buzz i get from a new purchase. that is hightened even more when the gallery seems excited to show a particular artist. i love the enthusiasm that thinkspace, eli ridgeway gallery, white walls, joshua liner gallery, david b smith gallery, show & tell (or COOPER COLE as i should exclaim) and guererro gallery have shown for the artists that they exhibit.
this thread has been an interesting read so far. i'm surprised that so many apply such a science to the way they approach galleries and buy art. i'm just not that strategic or organised i guess...
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Post by treeoflife on Oct 27, 2011 0:30:11 GMT -8
Even Darcie and Kendal at this point. i miss the levine period when lori and brandi worked there!
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Post by |peetov| on Oct 27, 2011 0:47:39 GMT -8
i've been to levine in person and couldn't get the time of day while standing in the empty gallery. i guess i don't look like much to them, but i mean i've thrown down plenty of money for art and that seems like a pretty risky way to run things.
thinkspace, c.a.v.e, show & tell, corey helford, lebasse, and roq la rue have all been a pleasure to deal with.
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Post by Weezy on Oct 27, 2011 20:25:54 GMT -8
So I've had another ephipany of sorts in understanding why the expectation of art prices as a ratchet exists, and I thought I'd throw it into the mix.
Achieving a pricing ratchet-- or at least prices that are "sticky" within a collar-- is likely viewed as a significant component of what both artists' and collectors' understand themselves paying for when the gallerists take their significant cut (often ranging 40-50% of list). If a gallerist isn't appropriately managing an artist's exposure, creating a market for the work at a particular pricepoint by providing exposure and services to stoke the fires of demand (and maybe if they're lucky even achieve some level of hype that pushes prices ever higher in the sense that they've fomented a demand that feeds on itself), then they're not going to be seen as a value add that justifies their cut and economically rational artists and collectors will act to forego such a middleman. There's nothing problematic about this role of the gallerist. It's all business, and a gallerist's job so seen is tough. Their significant cut represents not only overhead but the high degree of risk they're sometimes taking to show artists who are unknown and/or whose work doesn't end up supporting a previous pricepoint-- and therefore selling-- given the vagaries of taste and demand (I imagine the successful shows subsidize the unsuccessful shows but at a cost to the successful artist that may soon have them shopping for other representation that can afford to take a smaller cut and still make a healthy business). The successful gallerists deserve a lot of respect as marketers and businesspeople considering the risks they take and need to justify such a large cut. I have a FA I love who makes a healthy commission off me when he does my trades, and I'd fire him in a heartbeat if those fees didn't exceed the marginal return he delivers over and above what I thought I could do on my own without him. Gallerist is no different-- their cut earned through relationships with collectors and by making a market to support sales and prices for the artist that exceed the market and prices the artist could achieve for his or her work on his or her own. Otherwise the artist is wise to either renegotiate the margin or cut out the middleman. The artist justifies the gallerist's cut once the work clears a sale at a higher net price than the artist could achieve on his own. The collector has paid the margin, in part for services rendered, but in part to ensure some level of commitment, though the gallerist's successful future efforts, that value paid will be preserved. The ratchet. A failure of the ratchet is viewed in that regard as a breach of that implicit covenant between gallerist and collector. I don't know that this explains every collector's thinking-- as for myself, truth be told there's an element of this in my thinking, but you've heard me above with my car analogy viewpoint and the importance of paying that amount for art that you enjoy enough to justify the opportunity cost of using your limited resources to acquire it over other things.
Moreover, I'm sympathetic of the challenges gallerists have in preserving a price ratchet. That can be a tall order, considering the vagaries of demand for an artist's work, and the art market generally. So one would think that all gallerists would be very circumspect about treating potential collectors like crap so when this happens, their customers give them the benefit of the doubt they did all they could to maintain demand and their value add is not called into question to the point they're squeezed out of future transactions. And given that the gallerist's ability to deliver on the expectations to justify these margins is in large part dependent on creating sufficient demand to exceed supply and support the ratchet pricepoint, one also would imagine that gallerists wouldn't alienate anyone who might foster demand by treating them poorly.
In short, when some gallerists with a bad reputation treat potential collectors like crap, one wonders whether they're even smart enough to understand the business that they're in. If the jerks out there (thankfully in the minority of gallerists) have nonetheless been successful to the extent of supporting their gallery as a going concern, they have done so really in spite of themselves, and I think they're vulnerable for a fall. As Sin points out, the means for that to happen in terms of the transformative changes removing middlemen in similarly cloistered industries is already at hand.
Weezy
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Post by rhinomilk on Oct 31, 2011 10:42:23 GMT -8
yea, i didn't get anything from Josh's Levine show either.......
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Post by samiam on Nov 1, 2011 14:07:20 GMT -8
To me it is all about the art. I will never buy art I don’t like from a gallery I happen to be fond of and I will cheerfully buy art I love from a gallery I don’t particularly like. If the “Antichrist Gallery” were selling James Jean’s “Vanity” I would calculate how much my soul is worth, throw on my fireproof suit and be the first in line. After all, the gallery is out of my day to day life relatively quickly, but I will live with the art I buy from them every day. Kind of a simplified approach, but it works for me.
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Post by ziggy1 on Nov 7, 2011 16:49:04 GMT -8
White Walls, Shooting Gallery and 941 Geary which are all owned by Justin Giarla are awesome to work with.
When I started as a collector Justin helped me avoid some costly mistakes even though it cost him money. A very artist friendly gallery that is always passionate about art.
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Post by silazzz on Nov 17, 2011 0:56:28 GMT -8
If anyone has a direct email address to someone helpful at Levine Gallery please can you pm me it. Never done business with them before but an artist told me they had some work of his available. Sent two emails to the address on the website over the last 4 weeks but no response. Usually I would have given up but they have something I would really like. I will probably end up calling them but being UK based it would be easier if they just emailed me the images. EDIT - someone sent me a couple of emails to use, thanks.
My recommendations for good service and going out their way to help are: Choque Cultural Logo Gallery, Brazil Art NYC SP
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Post by Weezy on Nov 18, 2011 22:12:35 GMT -8
Silazzz, don't be too worried about dealing with Levine. I've found them to be slow in responding, and I've had to nudge them a bit, but so far I've found them very helpful and responsive when I've got them engaged. For me it's all about actions though, and while it remains to be seen whether they deliver for me what we've talked about, my experiences with the gallery so far have been positive, and completely unreflective of the bad rap they seem to be getting in these posts. I say that noting that some of these stories do sound horrible, and make me feel awful for fellow board members because I know how it feels to be treated poorly by galleries, but it's just not been my own experience at Levine.
My one bit of advice is to try to avoid pinging them at times when you know they're likely all crazy trying to put up a new show. Maybe second week into a show or something is a good time to call or write?
Weezy
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Post by silazzz on Nov 22, 2011 1:09:57 GMT -8
Someone sent me Raymond's email address and I got a response back quickly. The piece I was after should be with me next week.
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Post by highbrow on Jan 10, 2012 7:54:44 GMT -8
Has anyone been having any communication issues with Lebasse, when I purchased my Large Frizzell oil Beau informed me that one of Nates sculptures of the rabbits was included in the purchase price. I followed up regarding the sculpture in Nov, which was a busy time for Beau and he informed me there had been an issue with the molds and he would get back to me. he did end up getting back to me while he was out of town and informed me they were in and were being prepped for shipping in the next week or so. I emailed Mid. in Dec regarding possible moving a few works and to inquire again about the sculpture and Beau was very excited about moving the works but no mention regarding the sculpture. I have since emailed three times once asking for an invoice so I could purchase one of the sculptures as I have given up on the idea of it being included in the oil as he previously informed me , once regarding a couple Fairey works I was looking to move, and finally to inquire about another Nate work he currently has available regarding images and a few other questions and have gotten no reply regarding any of the three. Again I have fully given up on the idea of the sculpture being included with the large oil painting as previously told to me by Beau but find the lack of replys regarding the other two issues odd, so just thought I would check and see if anyone else has communication issues.
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Post by bealsandabbate on May 28, 2012 21:56:23 GMT -8
This is such a great thread and packed with intelligent debate. If okay, I would love to email the link to this thread to my collectors. As a gallery owner (only 10 years in the business and opened my own gallery last year), it is my intention to exhibit the best art by a handful of amazing artists. Most artists I show are young like me, in their careers, and do not have a history of auctions to speak of... Yet.
I want everyone that deals with my gallery to receive great service and to feel confident when they are ready to return. Much of my business is actually walk-in, with about 20% online.
Anyways, the prices that are set are usually done so by my artists. They usually have raised these prices slowly over the course of several years and several shows. Artists like Frank Gonzales and Fred Calleri and Amy Ringholz have had shows elsewhere that may or may have not sold out, yet there sales have been consistent at a certain price point (often set per square inch). Recently, our Ringholz show in November sold out with 24 paintings of various sizes. It was exciting and thrilling and she had sold over 100 paintings throughout the year in her 4 different galleries. Due to supply and demand and frankly, concern for the health of the artist, it was decided to raise her prices about 20%... ( which hasn't slowed her sales down).
Also, Frank Gonzales has sold dozens of paintings with a close to sold out show last October of 22 paintings. His decision to raise his prices about 10% was well thought out and with attention to past collectors. He didn't want to abandon his past collectors and price his work out of range of his successful market. Plus, he is young and has a bright future to demand a high value.
In both cases, the slow price raises with consistent purchases defeats the idea of sudden inflation and then potential sudden drop in sales. Both artists receive monthly checks and are able to live a more steady and reliable way, without worry of seasonal sales based on auction markets, with a broader collector base. Perhaps, both artists will have to work in the hundred thousand dollar price range one day and the marketing strategy will change.
So, for their next shows I will continue to email previous collectors and advertise in national magazines for potential new collectors and then sell on a first come, first serve basis. Of course, those that want to see a preview of the work, will see the works before anyone else and therefore be able to make the first purchases. This seems to be the fair way to do it.
Also, I am no Levine or Sotheby's or Thinkspace, (yet) but I'm a young art dealer building my reputation. Yet, I hope to continue to treat everybody interested in the artwork in my gallery with respect and fair business practices... Holding confidence in my artists prices... sleeping at night knowing my collectors received a fair price for their hard earned money spent on the artwork of their choice.
Anyways, just wanted to share a gallery's perspective to some of the comments in this thread. Most people that collect the art in my gallery, do so because they simply love the work and can't wait to hang it in their homes or offices.
Sent from Robert Beals of Beals & Abbate Fine Art (www.bealsandabbate.com)
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Post by whynotreally on Jul 26, 2012 7:54:45 GMT -8
I wanted to give a plug to Unit44 Gallery in Newcastle, UK. They've been open for just over a year and have already held a lot of amazing shows with The London Police, Remi/Rough, Seb Lester, Philip Lumbang, and many more. They have a lot of fantastic urban/street stuff for sale. I've purchased 2 pieces from them so I can vouch for their good character and care in shipping (I live in the US). Here is their website: www.unit-44.com/
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Post by MrJames on Aug 9, 2012 6:46:57 GMT -8
I dealt with Jonathan LeVine Gallery (Raymond Bulman – sales director) for the entire month of October 2011 when I was searching for my first Brett Amory painting. It took a couple days to get a response on my inquiry but when I did Raymond was very helpful and responded to all my emails (at least 10-15) and answered all my questions & concerns.
I made a trip down from CT to see the couple pieces I was considering in person and although the gallery was closed for setting up the new Josh Keyes / AJ Fosik show opening that night they opened up for me. Granted I had an appointment and it wasn’t a random knock on the door but it was still appreciated considering.
Only negative I could say about JLG is some months after I sent a few emails to some of the “higher ups” asking for some recommendations/advice and they were never responded to. I’m sure it’s safe to assume they get a bunch of emails like the ones I sent so their lack of response wasn’t completely surprising. I will say though that it’s the galleries that always respond no matter how busy they are or how high the person’s title is that will always get my business first. A big part of collecting for me is the positive relationships you build.
On another note the gallery I’ve dealt with the most so far through emails & purchases is ThinkSpace & Andrew Hosner. He’s definitely been the best, nicest & most accommodating person to work with and I’d recommended that gallery to anyone.
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Jesús
Full Member
Posts: 199
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Post by Jesús on Aug 9, 2012 7:06:39 GMT -8
On another note the gallery I’ve dealt with the most so far through emails & purchases is ThinkSpace & Andrew Hosner. He’s definitely been the best, nicest & most accommodating person to work with and I’d recommended that gallery to anyone. ^^I second this. Kirsten (Roq), Simon (Cooper), Eli Ridgway, and Morgan Lehman have always been extremely helpful/kind/accomodating, as well. (Side note: Cooper Cole has had amazing shows, lately...)
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Post by sin on Aug 9, 2012 12:26:56 GMT -8
I'll third the Andrew Hosner props. He has been super helpful. Beyond the top notch customer service I also really appreciate the effort he clearly puts into digging up great artists.
In addition to Andrew I have had some great dealings with David B Smith. Really responsive and helpful. An extra touch here and there that makes all the difference.
Lastly (and I may have said this before) Andrew and Laura at Andrew Edlin Gallery. I really respect their approach and passion. They have been an absolutely pleasure to work with. They have some new Elbow Toe stuff that you may want to check out.
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Post by ricosg11 on Aug 9, 2012 13:07:33 GMT -8
I dealt with Jonathan LeVine Gallery (Raymond Bulman – sales director) for the entire month of October 2011 when I was searching for my first Brett Amory painting. It took a couple days to get a response on my inquiry but when I did Raymond was very helpful and responded to all my emails (at least 10-15) and answered all my questions & concerns. I made a trip down from CT to see the couple pieces I was considering in person and although the gallery was closed for setting up the new Josh Keyes / AJ Fosik show opening that night they opened up for me. Granted I had an appointment and it wasn’t a random knock on the door but it was still appreciated considering. Only negative I could say about JLG is some months after I sent a few emails to some of the “higher ups” asking for some recommendations/advice and they were never responded to. I’m sure it’s safe to assume they get a bunch of emails like the ones I sent so their lack of response wasn’t completely surprising. I will say though that it’s the galleries that always respond no matter how busy they are or how high the person’s title is that will always get my business first. A big part of collecting for me is the positive relationships you build. On another note the gallery I’ve dealt with the most so far through emails & purchases is ThinkSpace & Andrew Hosner. He’s definitely been the best, nicest & most accommodating person to work with and I’d recommended that gallery to anyone.So in summation, when you had money to give them they were responsive and when you had an art-non-purchase related question you were blown off? That doesn't sound like someone I would like to support.
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Post by MrJames on Aug 10, 2012 3:30:36 GMT -8
I dealt with Jonathan LeVine Gallery (Raymond Bulman – sales director) for the entire month of October 2011 when I was searching for my first Brett Amory painting. It took a couple days to get a response on my inquiry but when I did Raymond was very helpful and responded to all my emails (at least 10-15) and answered all my questions & concerns. I made a trip down from CT to see the couple pieces I was considering in person and although the gallery was closed for setting up the new Josh Keyes / AJ Fosik show opening that night they opened up for me. Granted I had an appointment and it wasn’t a random knock on the door but it was still appreciated considering. Only negative I could say about JLG is some months after I sent a few emails to some of the “higher ups” asking for some recommendations/advice and they were never responded to. I’m sure it’s safe to assume they get a bunch of emails like the ones I sent so their lack of response wasn’t completely surprising. I will say though that it’s the galleries that always respond no matter how busy they are or how high the person’s title is that will always get my business first. A big part of collecting for me is the positive relationships you build. On another note the gallery I’ve dealt with the most so far through emails & purchases is ThinkSpace & Andrew Hosner. He’s definitely been the best, nicest & most accommodating person to work with and I’d recommended that gallery to anyone.So in summation, when you had money to give them they were responsive and when you had an art-non-purchase related question you were blown off? That doesn't sound like someone I would like to support. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't support JLG, just passing on my experience w/ them.
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Post by highbrow on Aug 10, 2012 19:27:12 GMT -8
I would like to say John at Toyroom Gallery not sure if he sold me the work out of his personal collection or the gallery, but I am amazed at packing , shipping, communication and everything. I will def. be a long time supporter of the gallery and John.
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Post by highbrow on Mar 2, 2013 6:51:23 GMT -8
I have been a huge fan of LeBasse Projects and spent a great deal of money with them over the years and all of late I have had items held hostage by them, not been able to get emails returned ( they have just been ignored ) and rarely have been able to get a text message replied to. Well I had a sculpture shipped to me and it arrived damaged, I mailed it back and was told even though it was a edition that no more were available. 5 months later I learn the gallery is offering one of the sculptures to a fellow client who I know. I confront the gallery about it and I am told they will make it right, Months pass and countless emails go to the gallery where I am told 1. The item will ship when the Gallery owner returns. then 2. The package is ready to ship but the gallery owner is at fairs ( why can only the owner ship not sure ). 3. Finally they even confirm my address for shipping which never happens. While this is taking place I inquire about having an artist do some hand finishing to a print which I purchased and was still at LeBasse gallery. I am told nothing can move forward till after the artist is done getting ready with his show. Well his show is completed and coming down I have emailed regarding the print and sculpture and still no response ( please keep in mind this is over a 10 plus month period ). I have sent my address, offered a fedex and UPS account number for shipping all to be ignored. I even inquired about the availability of the artists show and prints which the gallery has available as I know only half the show was sold, and still no reply regarding any of it.
This is a gallery I had a very good relationship with, when I learned of the sculpture issue I was still looking to do business, then I learn the sculpture which I was told was ready to ship, packed to ship and going to ship was offered to a customer at the most recent show opening shows me two things, one this gallery can not be trusted at least by me, and two they are not interested in taking my money so they must not be effected by the current economy.
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Post by sleepboy on Mar 2, 2013 11:06:50 GMT -8
Surprised to hear this Cory. Never had a problem with LeBasse before personally, in fact quite the opposite. Hopefully there is a good explanation for this.
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Post by highbrow on Mar 2, 2013 18:44:25 GMT -8
Nor I Hung until this recent issue but I am more surprised to see the number of other issues as well I am finding out about.
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Post by svenman on Mar 14, 2013 4:28:43 GMT -8
Just had a FB message this morning from an artist i know saying that she is no longer working with xxxx gallery because she's not been paid for work they sold of hers months ago. she's been promised payment repeatedly, but it's not come through. I know of at least a couple of other cases like this with ongoing court cases. Seems a shame that this sort of exploitation of artists continues to happen, but it does seem to be a worrying trend.
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Post by sin on Mar 14, 2013 7:45:30 GMT -8
maybe its time to light this shit up. www.fuckedgallery.coma little knock of of www.fuckedcompany.com I'll start fucking around with it when I get back from Vegas. Seriously, these pikers need to be put on notice.
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Post by sin on Mar 14, 2013 10:22:42 GMT -8
so, who knows, maybe it goes somewhere maybe it doesnt. im working on integrating user generated content (reviewed before posted) so I dont have to type everything but you get the idea. craigoneil.wix.com/fuckedgallery#
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