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Post by sleepboy on Jul 3, 2008 20:14:42 GMT -8
For those who would like to continue the discussion in the Audrey Kawasaki thread, do so here... Here's the last several posts. COMICONART SAYS: Of particular interest... Artist's proofs make up 10% the total edition. They are identical to the other prints and have the same commercial value. Printer's Proofs When the artist calls upon a printer to produce an edition, 1 or 2 identical proofs from the edition are reserved and identified as printer's proofs. So normally, there should be at most 7 or 8 proofs (including the BAT)...but PP has made 21 to pad their profits. And now they are charging more for the proofs, as well. Does the overwhelming stench of GREED offend anyone else? VIRTU SAYS: When we produce an exclusive edition with an artist we do the basic breakdown with fewer proofs and sometimes a deluxe edition. Lori Earley's "Caterpillar Dream" in an edition of 111. 95 signed & numbered 10 A/P given to Lori 1 P/P given to printer 5 S/P special proofs for give aways/contest or charity Andrew Brandou's "Hexagram" in an edition of 122 50 deckled paper (5 A/P) 50 deluxe canvas edition (5 A/P) 10 magnum oversize edition (2 A/P) A/P's given to Andrew Robert Williams "In The Pavilion of The Red Clown" in an edition of 56. 50 Signed & Numbered 5 A/P given to Robert 1 P/P given to printer |
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Post by sleepboy on Jul 3, 2008 20:21:33 GMT -8
Of particular interest... Artist's proofs make up 10% the total edition. They are identical to the other prints and have the same commercial value. Printer's Proofs When the artist calls upon a printer to produce an edition, 1 or 2 identical proofs from the edition are reserved and identified as printer's proofs. So normally, there should be at most 7 or 8 proofs (including the BAT)...but PP has made 21 to pad their profits. And now they are charging more for the proofs, as well. Does the overwhelming stench of GREED offend anyone else? Hm... maybe print publishing has changed a little because I notice that when galleries release prints they don't really announce how many AP's there are. It's kinda a mystery but I know it's usually more than 10% nowadays. |
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Post by virtu on Jul 3, 2008 21:24:03 GMT -8
Some galleries do not announce A/P's since they go into the artist personal stash some times & may not be available to the gallery.
Or they want to sell out the regular signed & numbered edition 1st before offering the A/Ps. (usually this)
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Post by richardtharbaugh on Jul 3, 2008 22:28:27 GMT -8
My experience is that most galleries don't regularly sell AP's and PP's, and if they do - they don't advertise the fact. There are certainly isolated examples, and in this genre, they seem to be the ones who are most related to the secondary market. Most artists and galleries stick pretty close to that "Code of Ethics For Original Printmaking" - and I think that's pretty cool that you do that with your editions, Virtu.
I don't mean anything personal in my criticism of how that printing company numbers their runs or sells their products. My criticisms only come as a fan and collector of artwork. I would assume the owner is a good guy, and I've seen some of the prints that he produces in his studio, and they're fantastic quality. The information you posted on the forum regarding his finances and what stock he's sold and not sold in terms of product, looked like it was trying to draw sympathy, but it really just makes it sound there have been some poor publishing decisions going on.
I disagree with high percentage of prints being called 'proofs' - when they're not at all treated as proofs, but just additional copies to sell at a second price tier after the "limited edition" sells out.
I don't think that looking at how Dr. Seuss, an Internationally known deceased icon and beloved character in American history - has, or his estate has - proofs issued - Then comparing that to how 26 year old Audrey Kawasaki's prints are editioned - can provide any rational conclusions.
What you said though about such editioning, "It allows them to make more money by producing more prints while still giving the impression of a smaller edition." - is what I don't like. I'm totally glad to see both the printer and artist in that case making money. They both incredible work. The "spin" is just kind of silly. Maybe they should take your lead and consider a higher priced "special edition" - or - just a larger edition.
On that note, I really hope that what you said is not accurate, "Proofs are usually the only profit [they] will see after production cost (overhead) and advertising." - I hope the company is doing much better than that.
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Post by ruud035nl on Jul 3, 2008 23:45:08 GMT -8
My experience is that most galleries don't regularly sell AP's and PP's, and if they do - they don't advertise the fact. There are certainly isolated examples, and in this genre, they seem to be the ones who are most related to the secondary market. Most artists and galleries stick pretty close to that "Code of Ethics For Original Printmaking" - and I think that's pretty cool that you do that with your editions, Virtu. I don't mean anything personal in my criticism of how that printing company numbers their runs or sells their products. My criticisms only come as a fan and collector of artwork. I would assume the owner is a good guy, and I've seen some of the prints that he produces in his studio, and they're fantastic quality. The information you posted on the forum regarding his finances and what stock he's sold and not sold in terms of product, looked like it was trying to draw sympathy, but it really just makes it sound there have been some poor publishing decisions going on. I disagree with high percentage of prints being called 'proofs' - when they're not at all treated as proofs, but just additional copies to sell at a second price tier after the "limited edition" sells out. I don't think that looking at how Dr. Seuss, an Internationally known deceased icon and beloved character in American history - has, or his estate has - proofs issued - Then comparing that to how 26 year old Audrey Kawasaki's prints are editioned - can provide any rational conclusions. What you said though about such editioning, "It allows them to make more money by producing more prints while still giving the impression of a smaller edition." - is what I don't like. I'm totally glad to see both the printer and artist in that case making money. They both incredible work. The "spin" is just kind of silly. Maybe they should take your lead and consider a higher priced "special edition" - or - just a larger edition. On that note, I really hope that what you said is not accurate, "Proofs are usually the only profit [they] will see after production cost (overhead) and advertising." - I hope the company is doing much better than that. I completely agree with all of the above. I think all the PPs and APs are not fooling anyone in the long run. Just up the normal edition size if you need it to break even or earn a little profit. |
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Post by spidah on Jul 4, 2008 13:49:41 GMT -8
It's been my experience that a lot of galleries in this genre do sell A/Ps, and more often than not they are more money than the regular edition. In addition, there are a lot of them that increase the price of the regular edition as there are fewer of them available. I can say that I have bought an A/P from more than a handful of Galleries in this genre. Sometimes for more, sometimes for the same price. I just bought a P/P from the printer for about $200 less than the regular edition. ;D
I do think that there are some funky editions out there. I just recently (though I can't remember where) saw a Band Edition in addition to the regular, printer's, and artist's edition. It boils down to knowing what the entire Edition is. If they seller isn't forthright, then they are fooling you. If you do not ask or look into it, then you are the fool. Pressure Printing always has that info available, so it's hard to say you are being fooled. They can choose to do whatever they want with them, just like the artist does with their proofs.
I have often heard the word "Greed" used to describe or in reference to many different artists/galleries/publishers in this genre. But more often than not it's a remark from someone that probably doesn't know the whole picture or are just bitter types.
Just my opinion.
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Post by richardtharbaugh on Jul 4, 2008 16:34:36 GMT -8
Virtu, do you publish Amanda Visell's prints?
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Post by virtu on Jul 4, 2008 20:12:34 GMT -8
We only published Visell's "Boy's School" Ltd as a gallery exclusive.
Were an Authorized gallery for Visell (self publishing) and receive an allotment from each new limited edition she produces.
I am always open to trades?
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Post by richardtharbaugh on Jul 4, 2008 23:05:13 GMT -8
Ah, cool. I saw you post someplace else on the forum about those last three that came out and was curious if you published them - and how those were proofed out. On the sales level, do you sell prints just through the gallery, or on eBay too?
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Post by virtu on Jul 5, 2008 9:46:22 GMT -8
Visell does not issue cert's so I have never seen her edition break down but if I remember right she makes no proofs of any kind or only a few?
We sell mostly to our Patron/Walk In Collectors and do sell a bit thru our website.
Right now it's website only since we have closed for the Summer due to a family illness.
I do not have an Ebay account.
I had identity theft because of Ebay and closed my account about 5 years ago.
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Post by richardtharbaugh on Jul 5, 2008 12:40:24 GMT -8
Cool deal. I'm really sorry to hear about the family illness. I've had a couple seasons of knowing that all too well, too.
That's wild with the eBay account and identity theft. Maybe someone's doing it again? There's been someone selling a bunch of stuff you inventory in the store with the exact same descriptions, but they say they're out of Nashville. Kinda wacky. If you're online only in sales for awhile, maybe an eBay account would help increase exposure / sales.
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Post by virtu on Jul 5, 2008 13:02:32 GMT -8
A few collectors turn around and resell artwork they buy from me. (I limit 1 per collector)
The Nashville collector I know (medical bills).
I watch Ebay everyday and as long as the price is the opening price or higher I have no problem with it. (as long as the edition is sold out)
And I do have a friend in California that sells some of our art on Ebay here and there.
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Post by richardtharbaugh on Jul 5, 2008 13:07:20 GMT -8
Cool, yeah. I don't have any problem with eBay either - as long as folks aren't being shady about it. Why was the Nashville collector selling stuff that was seemingly available for pickup in Indianapolis?
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Post by virtu on Jul 5, 2008 16:04:47 GMT -8
She lives here to Indy right now. (how she found me)
She is selling the Nashville house and moving here full time. (better hospital for her treatment in Indy)
Weird but I want to move the gallery to Nashville, it's so cool there with a growing art community.
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Post by richardtharbaugh on Jul 5, 2008 16:29:07 GMT -8
That is weird. She does free shipping, just like EV, too. I hope she gets the best treatment and it leads to a speedy and full recovery. Looks like she's a been a great customer for several years. If that stuff is shipping from or for pickup in Indy, you should let her know to change her item location designation on eBay: pages.ebay.com/help/policies/item-location.htmlMaybe an eBay account of your own would help increase your exposure, too. Anyhow, good luck with it. |
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Post by mute on Jul 5, 2008 18:09:52 GMT -8
Weird but I want to move the gallery to Nashville, it's so cool there with a growing art community. How about Louisville, meet halfway, it would be a lot closer. I've always thought the art/underground scene in Louisville to be more prominent than in Indy,Cincy, or Nashville. I've always meant to check you out in Indy but never have. Indy just seems like a time warp to me, like it's 5 years behind everyone else ;D. |
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