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Post by wenters on May 15, 2013 0:32:08 GMT -8
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Post by rizza79 on May 15, 2013 9:39:01 GMT -8
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Post by rizza79 on May 15, 2013 9:40:33 GMT -8
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Post by rizza79 on May 15, 2013 14:38:24 GMT -8
such a surprise  |
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Post by simococo on May 26, 2013 8:24:01 GMT -8
Talent. Anyone go to his last show?
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Post by mose on May 26, 2013 9:27:25 GMT -8
I've seen his work at Klagsbrun and the Independent fair in 2012. Honestly, didn't think much of it on first view. At Klagsbrun, the in initial reaction was, 'wow, another Twombly knock-off'. At Independent, it was just yawns.
In retrospect, I was wrong, especially with the knee-jerk Twombly reaction which was pretty short-sighted and narrow-minded. Not to say some Twombly isn't there, it most definitely is. But, I've come to be much more appreciative of his work and the vibe behind it and am eager to see it develop.
I will say though, when he goes into Joe Bradley turf, and then you see Joe Bradley's foot-and-mouth paintings, or the current lotus eaters, you realize that Murillo does have quite a way to go to stand as an individual and not someone based on a lot of references(for example, 'oh, the work has the energy of Basquiat and his embrace of Twombly')
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2013 0:13:50 GMT -8
Love his work. Looking to buy if anyone has work available.
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Post by drevil on May 27, 2013 9:19:18 GMT -8
I'm really liking his work based on pics I have seen and what I've read. The infusion of community, culture, and shared experiences is really cool and taking some novel steps. Though the end result is sometimes not as appealing to my eye and lacks any real "beauty." To the extent that that is important. But, on the other hand, this guy just graduated last year and has a ways to go to reach a phase with "mature" work that stands apart from past influence. As noted by Mose. Also, I don't know if that auction result is indicative of primary pricing or not. If so I find it disturbing. Almost $40k for a 2.5' x 2.5' minor work on canvas?  ! I have some pets.com stock if anyone is buying this bubbliciousness. |
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Post by rizza79 on May 27, 2013 10:00:59 GMT -8
From what I have been able to gather primary is not even in the cards. Seems as though about 2 years ago it was relatively easy to buy from the studio for very reasonable prices. I know what I've seen offered secondary is in line with the auction result and this was well before the auction took place. Market makers/powers that be whatever you wanna call it have already seem to have taken control.
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Post by artladval on May 27, 2013 11:26:33 GMT -8
Also, I don't know if that auction result is indicative of primary pricing or not. If so I find it disturbing. Almost $40k for a 2.5' x 2.5' minor work on canvas? ! I have some pets.com stock if anyone is buying this bubbliciousness. This is normal for new art market darlings. See: Jacob Kassay, Ryan Sullivan, Tauba Auerbach, Thomas Houseago, Matthew Day Jackson, Dan Colen, and so on. There's nothing disturbing about it and primary pricing is not correlated at this stage and is usually a mirage to most collectors. Bubbles are characterized by rapid price appreciation, but that is not the only factor and there is more to causation and you should look at fundamentals. One thing about Murillo, and I don't know how true this rumor is, but he may work very fast and there may be a lot of his stuff out there: www.artforum.com/diary/id=39764"Rumor has it that Oscar Murillo, who the gallery featured last year, sold some four hundred works within a week of his Independent debut." |
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Post by drevil on May 27, 2013 14:06:28 GMT -8
Also, I don't know if that auction result is indicative of primary pricing or not. If so I find it disturbing. Almost $40k for a 2.5' x 2.5' minor work on canvas? ! I have some pets.com stock if anyone is buying this bubbliciousness. This is normal for new art market darlings. See: Jacob Kassay, Ryan Sullivan, Tauba Auerbach, Thomas Houseago, Matthew Day Jackson, Dan Colen, and so on. There's nothing disturbing about it and primary pricing is not correlated at this stage and is usually a mirage to most collectors. Bubbles are characterized by rapid price appreciation, but that is not the only factor and there is more to causation and you should look at fundamentals. One thing about Murillo, and I don't know how true this rumor is, but he may work very fast and there may be a lot of his stuff out there: www.artforum.com/diary/id=39764"Rumor has it that Oscar Murillo, who the gallery featured last year, sold some four hundred works within a week of his Independent debut." This is false. Based on my limited knowledge many of these artists had early periods where prices were not so crazy. This poor kid is straight out of school. I honestly feel sorry for him. The money would be nice but the pressure must be immense. I doubt he will ever evolve to something that actually matters historically. Living in the SF Bay Area this feels very much like the 2001 bubble era. Not good. IMO. |
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Post by artladval on May 27, 2013 14:34:04 GMT -8
This is normal for new art market darlings. See: Jacob Kassay, Ryan Sullivan, Tauba Auerbach, Thomas Houseago, Matthew Day Jackson, Dan Colen, and so on. There's nothing disturbing about it and primary pricing is not correlated at this stage and is usually a mirage to most collectors. Bubbles are characterized by rapid price appreciation, but that is not the only factor and there is more to causation and you should look at fundamentals. One thing about Murillo, and I don't know how true this rumor is, but he may work very fast and there may be a lot of his stuff out there: www.artforum.com/diary/id=39764"Rumor has it that Oscar Murillo, who the gallery featured last year, sold some four hundred works within a week of his Independent debut." This is false. Based on my limited knowledge many of these artists had early periods where prices were not so crazy. This poor kid is straight out of school. I honestly feel sorry for him. The money would be nice but the pressure must be immense. I doubt he will ever evolve to something that actually matters historically. Living in the SF Bay Area this feels very much like the 2001 bubble era. Not good. IMO. What exactly is false and what does the amount of time an artist has been out if school have to do with anything? FYI, he's had several solo shows over the past few years, including at multiple museums. |
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Post by drevil on May 27, 2013 14:54:03 GMT -8
This is false. Based on my limited knowledge many of these artists had early periods where prices were not so crazy. This poor kid is straight out of school. I honestly feel sorry for him. The money would be nice but the pressure must be immense. I doubt he will ever evolve to something that actually matters historically. Living in the SF Bay Area this feels very much like the 2001 bubble era. Not good. IMO. What exactly is false and what does the amount of time an artist has been out if school have to do with anything? FYI, he's had several solo shows over the past few years, including at multiple museums. Sorry for not clarifying more. What I'm saying is that many of the artists you listed did not actually reach such price heights straight out of school. And private museums = no. |
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Post by artladval on May 27, 2013 15:07:27 GMT -8
What exactly is false and what does the amount of time an artist has been out if school have to do with anything? FYI, he's had several solo shows over the past few years, including at multiple museums. Sorry for not clarifying more. What I'm saying is that many of the artists you listed did not actually reach such price heights straight out of school. And private museums = no. How can what you say I said be false if I'm telling you the amount of time an artist is out of school has nothing to do with anything? |
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Post by drevil on May 27, 2013 15:20:21 GMT -8
Sorry for not clarifying more. What I'm saying is that many of the artists you listed did not actually reach such price heights straight out of school. And private museums = no. How can what you say I said be false if I'm telling you the amount of time an artist is out of school has nothing to do with anything? Feel free to provide some form of evidence. You said it. Not me. |
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Post by artladval on May 27, 2013 15:24:18 GMT -8
How can what you say I said be false if I'm telling you the amount of time an artist is out of school has nothing to do with anything? Feel free to provide some form of evidence. You said it. Not me. You said something I said was "false" when what you at saying it is false about had nothing to do with what I was saying. And FYI, demand is never correlated to amount of time since an artist has graduated. |
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Post by drevil on May 27, 2013 15:29:58 GMT -8
Feel free to provide some form of evidence. You said it. Not me. You said something I said was "false" when what you at saying it is false about had nothing to do with what I was saying. And FYI, demand is never correlated to amount of time since an artist has graduated. What? Still waiting for evidence about your original assertion. If you are going to say that all of those artists skipped the early phases and prices of their careers then please provide some evidence to back it up. I'm not asking for anything more and would love to be proved wrong. For example, I know for a fact that Tauba's prices were not anything near this when she was with Deitch at the start. |
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Post by artladval on May 27, 2013 15:37:50 GMT -8
You said something I said was "false" when what you at saying it is false about had nothing to do with what I was saying. And FYI, demand is never correlated to amount of time since an artist has graduated. What? Still waiting for evidence about your original assertion. If you are going to say that all of those artists skipped the early phases and prices of their careers then please provide some evidence to back it up. I'm not asking for anything more and would love to be proved wrong. For example, I know for a fact that Tauba's prices were not anything near this when she was with Deitch at the start. I can't help you with your reading comprehension issues. The only thing that affects demand is how much collectors want a certain artist's work and I hate to break it to you, but some of the most significant artists in history have either never graduated and dropped out of art school or never went. People still buy their work. |
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Post by drevil on May 27, 2013 15:39:37 GMT -8
What? Still waiting for evidence about your original assertion. If you are going to say that all of those artists skipped the early phases and prices of their careers then please provide some evidence to back it up. I'm not asking for anything more and would love to be proved wrong. For example, I know for a fact that Tauba's prices were not anything near this when she was with Deitch at the start. I can't help you with your reading comprehension issues. The only thing that affects demand is how much collectors want a certain artist's work and I hate to break it to you, but some of the most significant artists in history have either never graduated and dropped out of art school or never went. People still buy their work. Ha! Come on. Evidence. But I must say that after re-reading this that I'm not really driving at a point revolving completely around the importance of any art of an artist straight out of school. My point is about these sort of crazy high prices for an artist straight out of school. Regardless of its ultimate importance. I don't think this is charted territory at this kind of price level. Maybe I'm wrong. |
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Post by mose on May 27, 2013 15:50:01 GMT -8
Just to shoehorn in Frank Stella everywhere I go, regardless of whether it is appropriate or not, I just want to state that in 1958, at the age of 22, Stella graduated Princeton, moved to NYC, and produced his first Black Painting. In 1959, at the age of 23 and less than a year removed from art school, a few black paintings were included in the show 'Sixteen Americans' at MoMA and he signed with Leo Castelli.
I don't really think this applies to anything being discussed here, but I am the official president of the 'Frank Stella is the greatest artist that no one ever talks about on forums' fan club.
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Post by drevil on May 27, 2013 15:53:53 GMT -8
Just to shoehorn in Frank Stella everywhere I go, regardless of whether it is appropriate or not, I just want to state that in 1958, at the age of 22, Stella graduated Princeton, moved to NYC, and produced his first Black Painting. In 1959, at the age of 23 and less than a year removed from art school, a few black paintings were included in the show 'Sixteen Americans' at MoMA and he signed with Leo Castelli. I don't really think this applies to anything being discussed here, but I am the official president of the 'Frank Stella is the greatest artist that no one ever talks about on forums' fan club. Exception does not equal rule. If he is the next Stella then so be it. But, no way honestly. Stella = a whole nother level compared to his fella. |
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Post by mose on May 27, 2013 16:00:43 GMT -8
oh, completely agree on exception not = rule.
Stella is a up with Picasso and Warhol. Murillo is a young man whom I wish well and am excited to see develop.
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Post by drevil on May 27, 2013 16:03:35 GMT -8
oh, completely agree on exception not = rule. Stella is a up with Picasso and Warhol. Murillo is a young man whom I wish well and am excited to see develop. Agree on all accounts. I wish him well but fear for him given the talons in place already. |
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Post by rizza79 on May 27, 2013 17:29:26 GMT -8
to chime in with the little I know....from my understanding Murillo's work was sub 1k GBP two years ago. As Khoi said, galleries tend to keep primary pricing a mirage of sorts. It probably serves a number of purposes, not that I necessarily agree with it, but its just how things are.
I also don't think one auction result for Murillo means much. However, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if something like this was used as a tool to creep up primary when they finally do start offering the work. I know there were two recent works at The Hole's X-Straction Exhibition and the PDF had them listed NFS. Whether they were loaned, pre-bought, commissions, etc...I have no clue. They were sort of meh like the auction piece. I'm sure the auction piece was just a piece from some storage facility of a person that bought a grip of big works a few years ago and they got it as part of the deal. Again, I could be wrong but it certainly makes sense.
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Post by waltercrunk on May 29, 2013 11:14:24 GMT -8
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! I have some pets.com stock if anyone is buying this bubbliciousness. 
