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Post by reactor88 on Mar 11, 2009 8:45:14 GMT -8
I know some of you probably already saw this, but if you haven't: forums.kidrobot.com/viewtopic.php?p=1721561I know Gary and he's always done me right with purchases at Copro. Yes he's a little eccentric and scatterbrained at times, but I found this interesting.. |
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Post by sleepboy on Mar 11, 2009 9:04:02 GMT -8
Even after reading that I'm still not sure what happened. But, I can say I have never had a problem with Gary before.
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Post by kidrobotct on Mar 11, 2009 10:38:13 GMT -8
Being new to art OG scene I had called awhile back looking to get a noferin piece and was turned off by speaking with Gary. He had a very impatient,condescending and elitist tone. While I may not be buying the largest piece it has always been my belief that gallery owners should be helpful in educating their potential customers about the pieces and process.
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Post by steveinca on Mar 11, 2009 10:59:16 GMT -8
I put in my 2 cents. Never had a problem with Gary or Molly.
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Post by richardtharbaugh on Mar 11, 2009 11:11:34 GMT -8
Third verse, same as the first...
If the person with this experience does follow Gary's advice and does "buy stuff from galleries or the artist and not e-bay" - They'll probably either join the legion of folks who realize they don't want to give this place their money, or the few that brush off and defend what goes on when they're not strongly appealing to be given preference at their shows. I haven't come across many folks who sit the in middle, at least not for very long.
I found that by researching where artists show, I've been able to make some great acquaintances - who've been kind enough to politely answer emails, not left me with a horrible taste in my mouth, and even cashed numerous checks for about 20% of my annual income that I've been glad to support their galleries with.
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Post by masao626 on Mar 11, 2009 11:17:41 GMT -8
^curious about whether your criticism of people who give copro business, extends to the artists that choose to continually do business with the gallery.
i'm not defending Gary's email, or Gary. he's a big boy and can step up and give his side if he feels like it. i expressed in the other thread my individual experiences, which have been very positive.
there is not one gallery represented here or elsewhere (literally, not one) that i have not heard negative rumors about. i have not had any negative experiences with these galleries so far and the ones i've built a relationship with will continue to get my full support, despite the rumors.
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Post by oldfartatplay on Mar 11, 2009 11:20:48 GMT -8
I read the thread over at the kidrobot forum.
I think the bottom line is that many artists and gallerys don't want to deal with peoples ebay problems. If someone buys an item on ebay and has problems they should contact the seller not the artist, publisher or gallery.
The person over there is also making public private emails between him and Gary! to me that is just plain old wrong.
I've called and talked to Gary on several occasions, he is always friendly, polite knowledgeable. First time I spoke to him though I thought he sounded like a kid (that just might be my age showing).
kidrobotct, Gary Pressman is not the gallery owner, nor the copro part of copro/nason. Sorry if that sounded condescending or elitist.
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Post by richardtharbaugh on Mar 11, 2009 11:31:19 GMT -8
No, I understand that everyone has to eat. Have there been artists, along with collectors who've tapered or discontinued their relationship there?
I don't wish the gallery any ill. It was, and it's owner were - key in the movement that exposed me to some great artwork.
In terms of the gallery making money to do that, I can only speculate they'd have better results with that if there weren't so many stories about customers or potential customers leaving experiences there feeling insulted. That certainly, even online, isn't a new story today.
I think it'd be great if the place had a personable resurgence.
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Post by chetzar on Mar 11, 2009 12:15:59 GMT -8
Gary is a cool and honest fellow. Gary is the man.
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Post by svenman on Mar 11, 2009 12:40:28 GMT -8
[quote author=masao626 board= .....ones i've built a relationship with will continue to get my full support, despite the rumors.[/quote] word to this comment charity. couldn't agree more. personal relationships count for a hell of a lot in my book. trust builds trust and establishes repeat patronage. have not had any major dealings with copro myself aside from a couple of print purchases, so cannot chip in my 2pence worth on this issue. i've had a few negative experiences in the past, but simply don't support the galleries concerned. i vote with my wallet. i don't think that private email exchanges like this should be spread over t'internet. does sound like he was having a VERY bad day though...  i'm sure the copro guy knows about the kidrobot thread now, and i'm sure it made his day  |
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Post by kidrobotct on Mar 11, 2009 20:17:58 GMT -8
good to know. being out on the east coast I have no clue about the west coast galleries. The way my phone conversation went it seemed like he was the one in charge. Glad that was cleared up (no offense taken either way). I ended up contacting the artist I was interested in directly and obtaining a small piece for my parents.
My experiences with galleries has been mainly positive and I agree that every gallery is going to have their ups and downs. I do find it interesting that the artists are all fairly accessible at this point in their careers, which I'm sure makes it an interesting situation for the galleries.
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Post by sleepboy on Mar 11, 2009 21:12:14 GMT -8
So turns out the print in question was the one sold framed at Audrey's show. Gary accidentally put one that was not numbered, not AP either, some stock one. When the buyer found out, Gary held a numbered one for the buyer to exchange once they shipped it back to the gallery...that was a while back. Next thing he hears, the dude flips it on ebay leading to this situation.
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Post by sabotage on Mar 12, 2009 12:55:12 GMT -8
Gary accidentally put one that was not numbered, not AP either, some stock one. This is the reason for concern. According to the OPs response from AK's people. |
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Post by devours on Mar 12, 2009 12:59:41 GMT -8
I have been reading that too, and it seems very unusual. I respect Solar very much, but I have had personal dealings before with Gary when purchasing and he has been open, professional and very warm to me, and the same goes with Molly. I understand why that buyer felt compelled to share that debacle, but it is interesting how discerning the responses have been.
I feel a bit sorry for the KR boards. There have been many sour transactions regarding members being ripped off, so you can see why the patience of the board in general is growing short of late.
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Post by kidrobotct on Mar 13, 2009 5:17:59 GMT -8
wow it's gotten really bad over there on that thread. threats, name calling.....it reminds me of an elementary school fight...
personally i think the whole thing is a huge misunderstanding that has blown out of proportion. best thing for gary to do is establish a policy in the future that they cannot authenticate ebay purchases or seller's stories. Would have avoided a lot of this mess.
i am curious however, what people think about the role of the gallery and/or artists in authenticating. It's been stated that kaws, banksy (through pest control) and other artists do help in authenticating. Also I've spoken with many galleries in NYC and Boston and they do help to authenticate works (i've been dying and saving up to get a warhol, haring or miro). There are other artists mainly in the urban and "low brow" art that personally help to authenticate images because they want to be sure what is out there is legit and have a better idea of how to have better control over the illegitimate sellers etc.
any thoughts?
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Post by highbrow on Mar 13, 2009 6:15:42 GMT -8
WOW really got going over there, so glad it is peaceful over here, nice and calm.
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Post by kidrobotct on Mar 13, 2009 6:54:52 GMT -8
you and me both. between that and all the scamming going on over there i've found myself here more and photography boards.
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Post by oldfartatplay on Mar 13, 2009 8:11:22 GMT -8
wow it's gotten really bad over there on that thread. threats, name calling.....it reminds me of an elementary school fight... personally i think the whole thing is a huge misunderstanding that has blown out of proportion. best thing for gary to do is establish a policy in the future that they cannot authenticate ebay purchases or seller's stories. Would have avoided a lot of this mess. i am curious however, what people think about the role of the gallery and/or artists in authenticating. It's been stated that kaws, banksy (through pest control) and other artists do help in authenticating. Also I've spoken with many galleries in NYC and Boston and they do help to authenticate works (i've been dying and saving up to get a warhol, haring or miro). There are other artists mainly in the urban and "low brow" art that personally help to authenticate images because they want to be sure what is out there is legit and have a better idea of how to have better control over the illegitimate sellers etc. any thoughts? Yeah it is getting nasty over there, I haven't posted on that board for a long time (now I remember why). I was about to but I'm afraid it wouldn't go over well with most of them (I tend to be rather blunt). You got to hand it to Gary though, signed up and posted. I guess he wanted to clear things up but now has found himself on the defense. I think many galleries are fine with authenticating work they have sold (that's what Gary was trying to do). Depending on what you need, it could be a simple question about a print or a full appraisal of a collection. Coincidentally I'm having gallery here in DC do an appraisal for part of my collection as we speak and I am more than happy to pay the fee they are charging. I would be very reluctant to bother a gallery about a print I just bought on Ebay (I wouldn't buy prints on ebay anyway). |
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Post by solar77 on Mar 13, 2009 8:20:02 GMT -8
So turns out the print in question was the one sold framed at Audrey's show. Gary accidentally put one that was not numbered, not AP either, some stock one. When the buyer found out, Gary held a numbered one for the buyer to exchange once they shipped it back to the gallery...that was a while back. Next thing he hears, the dude flips it on ebay leading to this situation. Nobody flipped anything. I think I lost $20 on the print. The truth of the matter is that I gave Gary every opportunity to correct his mistake and send me a legit print (ie. one with a number and no eraser mark) and he disappeared from our conversation when I couldn't wait at home all day for the Fedex guy to show up and take it. I don't hold it against him. I'd do business with Copro again if they had a piece I was interested in. In fact, I really don't give a damn about the entire situation, but I'm also not going to keep a print that I can't enjoy or exchange. As it is, I'm going to maintian my graceful exit from the KR thread until everyone's roid rage settles down. |
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Post by amin on Mar 13, 2009 12:21:59 GMT -8
Having been in the customer service industry for over 10 years, I can tell you that the best thing to do is to deal with these issues privately. No sense in airing dirty laundry.
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Post by richardtharbaugh on Mar 14, 2009 13:12:24 GMT -8
Well, I caught up with the rest of the ranting, and I never cease to be astonished.
Amin, c'mon - miss out on showing mass groups of people who spend their disposable income on stuff to look at, along with the artists who make a living by those folks who spend said money - how 'eccentric' and 'spunky' you are? No way, air it out. In this boom economy, if some email user, blogging moron or candybar-head can't find the humor in being treated rudely, insulted, condescended, called names, or jerked around, then they can go spend their money or show their art elsewhere.
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Post by mokaneshu on Mar 15, 2009 13:33:04 GMT -8
i am curious however, what people think about the role of the gallery and/or artists in authenticating. I'm not sure what to think of the whole situation that happened there. But as far as what I think of galleries and artists role in authenticating work, I don't necessarily think they have to. It's their choice as to what services they wish to provide since it is their business/work. I know that most collectors would think to ask the artist or gallery first if they had any questions about authentication because who else would you turn to? I definitely don't think that the person who contacted Audrey did anything wrong. Any artist or gallery can choose to handle it they way that they want to. I think as a collector we would hope that the artists and galleries that we like enough to purchase from and display in our homes would be concerned with their works enough to answer these questions for us. But if it's a service that the artist or gallery does not provide because of the time it takes or the volume of work it may concern, then I feel that the artists and galleries should know how to handle these situations since it is likely to come up since there really is no other place for a collector to turn for these questions. |
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soma
New Member
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Post by soma on Mar 16, 2009 18:40:53 GMT -8
as the person who responds to audrey's emails, i just want to say we have no problem authenticating a piece of work, no matter how someone got a hold of it.
while we don't condone flipping, we understand that due to the limited nature of audrey's work there will always be a second-hand market. if anyone has a question about whether something is real or not, seems like the best person to ask would be the artist, imo.
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Post by travislouie on Mar 17, 2009 7:24:53 GMT -8
I never like the term "second hand" there is nothing second hand about Audrey's work! I usually just say "secondary market"  |
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Post by crazyreesie on Mar 17, 2009 8:13:51 GMT -8
I never like the term "second hand" there is nothing second hand about Audrey's work! I usually just say "secondary market" "Collector-to-collector" market. ;D |
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