Mayweather vs. Ortiz.. WOW

[highbrow]

Not sure if there are boxing fans here but would love some feedback if anyone saw the fight. I very good friend of mine is in the boxing field ( he works for a very prominent promoter and is very versed in rules, etc. ) he had some great insight on what happened and went as far as to say, he did not think Mayweathers following could get any worse ( meaning the amount of people who are not fans ) but after this fight for sure. he also went on to say he spoke with the owner of the company and they will be disputing on record any fight they have upcoming that Cortez is on record to ref, and he thinks Cortez ( the ref. ) will retire after this his third major fight flub. thanks guys

[shine166]

I hope Mayweather fights Khan now, been waiting for that fight for a long time

[highbrow]

I could see him going Khan over packman, but I would not be surprised if he goes retirement, especially now he knows ( but likely doesn't care ) his legacy is effected by the fight, he also knows regardless of what he says he is slower, older and less powerful then even 16 months ago at his last fight. my friend felt he was put off when he saw ortiz was 14 pounds heavier and when he hit him he realized it was gonna be a long night as ortiz took the punches and kept moving forward. My friend has a lot of insight into boxing he works for Arum but I truly feel his love for the sport he has worked in his entire life in some manner overshadows the fact his boss is Pacmans promoter, and was Mayweather promoter also. Sadly last night the fight was more WWE then boxing. UFC is gonna have a field day with this as much as they try to move in on boxing fans to take them to their side.

[rhythmgtr5]

It seemed quite dirty from the video that I saw on Youtube. Hopefully they rectify the outcome of the fight and at least make it a NC if not a W for ortiz

[highbrow]

Rhythmgtr5 the win will stay with Mayweather but I and my friend truly believe it will be his last, however sadly like most boxers who become promoters Mayweather has no boxers to continue to promote. De La Hoya while fighting had boxers to promote and so did others , Mayweather has not set himself up to continue after boxing with the sport, he is not liked enough or knowledgable enough to go into broadcasting, he has no boxers to promote and he is not a trainer so his gym is of no use.

[|peetov|]

i'm pretty sick after watching the fight. i can't stand mayweather and joe cortez is always crap. what a waste of time, hype, and a shame for the sport of boxing.

you can't condone ortiz's actions, but he was quick to apologize and accepted the point deduction. mayweather blatantly doing whatever he wants regardless of the rules, and the ref backing him up is just ridiculous.

[highbrow]

Peetov. I agree Ortiz actions were first blatant ( from watching it, but who really knows ) second make zero sense, it was clear Mayweather was feeling the punches and it is possible Ortiz got excited and it just got away from him. Again makes no sense at all to throw the headbutt. I also agree, it was clear Ortiz apologized and probably did so to much, the head butt obviously was the topper Mayweather was clearly having a small issue figuring out Ortiz.

Ortiz and his extra 14 pounds was something may weather did not prepare for. Cortez is the worst ref. in the business and should have had to retire after the Hatton mess. Either way Cortez clearly never said box, and even he says he did motion for the fight to resume I have two issues, #1. You can clearly see he is in no position to handle the fight when Mayweather strikes Ortiz the first or second time, he is having a conversation with a side judge. #2. The Ortiz head butt takes place with 99 seconds left, how is he counted out, it takes 3 seconds for Mayweather to throw his punches.

mayweather I think will not return to boxing, this was his way out, Ortiz was bigger and Mayweather hit him with clean shots ( prior to the knock punch ) and Ortiz was ok with it, Mayweather had to see it as the would throw the punch and either A. knock him out ( which he did ) or B. catch a DQ and be able to still say he was undefeated and no one beat him, they had to steal his record. He has not faced a fighter under 25 since 2001 , he fights people past their prime, and the one person he needs to fight he wants to impose his personal sanctions on.

Sad day for boxing, even my friend said this is the worst exit he has seen since Tyson turned into a vampire.

[|peetov|]

yeah your points make great sense. i hate seeing things like this happen that make the ref look like he is literally in the pocket of a certain fighter. cortez was clearly looking outside of the ring when the incident happened and then just started counting ortiz out without ever having said box. i've never seen something like that happen before, and i watch boxing a fair amount (not to say i'm some expert or something).

it's just really sad to me to see this happen in such a big fight, and one involving someone i would love to see get their first loss. like you mentioned, mayweather was finally fighting a young, strong, bull of a kid that was not going to be deterred by floyd's punches and can obviously throw punches of his own that were most likely going to do some serious damage over the course of the fight. i just wanted to see THAT fight, not some suckerpunch with a terrible ref. it's just a shame that this is what you get when you look to see what boxing has to offer on the highest level.

i'm sure if mayweather fights again it will just be against another surprise opponent as he will continue to dodge the likes of pacquiao. i don't see how you can put yourself on such a high pedestal and call yourself the greatest while dodging the most obvious opponents for years on end while making excuses.

[highbrow]

Peetov , I also agree with your points 100 percent, Mayweather took this fight as a joke almost, he was not training as long as he should have for being out 16 months. He has to know he is on the back side of his career by the people who chooses to fight. He then makes comment about Pac. and how he doesn't see it possible to move up in weight classes as Pac has ( yet Mayweather also has moved out 5 weight classes, maybe he is the only person ) or how out of thin air Pac became a knockout puncher, Mayweather likes to say its steroids ( boxers are tested 2 weeks prior to fight and directly after fight for drugs ) however he fails to point out this only after he started with Freddie roach one of if not the best trainer of all times and most for currently.

I would love to see the Mayweather Pac fight but don't think it will happen, and I think Mayweather will be done fighting as anyone he fights now besides Pac is only going to bring his legacy down as at this point it is just padding his record.

[rhythmgtr5]

I dont really follow boxing, but if Mayweather is fighting washed up boxers, why does he get paid so much? Pretty much everything I've ever seen about him shows him throwing money around (literally)

[|peetov|]

mayweather isn't fighting washed up fighters. ortiz is young, tough, durable, can punch, is vulnerable.....

i think that's sort of the idea. mayweather has pretty rock solid defense and is very technical. you can put him against a knockout artists and watch him take opponents down by using their aggression against them and finding their holes, etc. he was starting to pick ortiz apart here and there......but ortiz can punch and he was finding mayweather's body occasionally. things were just starting to get kind of interesting when the nonsense happened, although mayweather would most likely have just gone on to destroy ortiz.

mayweather has a perfect professional record with over forty fights. he's considered to be one of the best boxers ever, and was considered pound-for-pound for the best boxer before he retired years back. i think any time he fights he's going to make a boatload of money for the simple fact that he's so highly regarded and people would love to see if he can "do it again" or "will he lose this one?"

all the while, he never ends up taking fights against guys who are tough, can punch, and have other attributes that make them dangerous like range or are slick themselves. he never fought margarito, a very tall and very tough/dangerous opponent that was shredding people in the division. you never saw him fight miguel cotto, another tough star who was knocking people out and looked unstoppable as they both rose in the division. you will probably also never see him fight manny pacquiao, a guy who can punch, has gotten incredibly slick with head movement and combinations, is durable, and is extremely exciting and fun to watch.

it's just frustrating. the whole world wants to see the damn fight, but mayweather isn't going to do it. it's hard to blame him.

highbrow - speaking of freddie roach...he walked right by me in a park when i was walking my puppy a couple months ago. talk about weird. i live in alabama...... he must have been here for the olympic boxing trials we were having. told him i was a big fan and he asked me how i was doing and we both just went along. then i realized there was a horde of cameras and crew following him about 30-40 yards back. it was pretty hilarious to just naturally look up at the person walking by on the sidewalk and it's freddie roach though.

[droow2]

To be honest I couldn't really care less about Mayweather, he's technically brilliant but boring as shit to watch. It's a shame he won't get it on with paq as he may have had his hat handed to him, but he obviously knows that.

I was more annoyed at him mouthing off to Larry Merchant, I wish Larry HAD been 50 years younger and planted one on him.

On a happier front, can't wait for the Carl Froch v Andre Ward super 6 final on October 29th (although why the best fighter the UK's produced in ages gets no recognition here is beyond me)

[highbrow]

Peetov. ( first I am enjoying your knowledge and love for the sport as I have, any also the intelligent back and fourth unlike most people who other conversations ) With the exception of Ortiz Mayweather has handled his last fights since 05 have all been older fighters and fighters who more often then not on the back slide of a career. Hatton said it was a payday, De La Hoya said he was well past his prime, Mosley I think he is a member of AARP. So yes people will say Paq has fought Mayweathers left overs or after Mayweather has done it, but each fight that went the distance with Mayweather the opponent hit the canvas with each time.

I don't know Mayweather would have destroyed Ortiz , would he had won yes, but the fight would have went the distance possibly and with Mayweathers defense and punching style ( which more often then not his punches do zero damage to a true boxer and the crowd oohing and ahhing is what the judges score ) Ortiz had a much better chance to take Mayweather down then past opponents, Mayweather while he dominated round 1-3 there was no damage to Ortiz, and Ortiz looked to be figuring him out end of 3 and through 4. Ortiz figured the body would slow down the already slower Mayweather and Mayweather had to realize Ortiz did have the power to knock him down.

I also agree prior to retirement he was considered the pound for pound, but just like when Jordan retired and came back and ( the second or third retirement LOL ) and did nothing it only hurt his legacy, there will never be another Jordan, but his legacy has a tarnish, Mayweather retired and came back and enjoyed easy cherry picked fights, and like Jordan there would have never been another Mayweather, but Paq showed up and while Mayweather was at home counting stacks of money from hard work and by far surpassed him.

I agree Mayweather has retired in order to keep his record unblemished by doing so when he should have fought Cotto or Margo. I also agree he did the same thing his second retirement to duck Manny. He also unlike other boxers ( De La Hoya ) has painted himself into a business corner as a promoter, he only promotes himself. De la Hoya has plenty of fighters , and Mayweathers company is not even a lic. one in Nev.

Droow2 I agree also Mayweather goes into a fight looking how to beat his challenger with defense ( which is great a win is a win ) but yes boring, Mayweather is never gonna swing for the fences, he is a brilliant counter puncher and does have good defense, and now more then ever he is slower and you can see it by how he move less in the ring, His camp says its because he wants to stand toe to toe with ortiz, but truth is moving around the ring like he use to would take to much out of him.

I also am pissed at the mouthing off to Merchant, with the exception of Sugar , Merchant maybe the most well versed person in boxing. Merchant does not have an attack out for Mayweather, Merchant asks the hard questions to everyone in the post fights, Mayweather would rather have Kellerman who is a fan and still trying to cement himself in the broadcasting community kiss up and toss easy questions. Kellerman would never bring up a cheap shot, Paq or anything that may upset a fighter.

Mayweather will retire and his big gym will go unused as Paq continues to fight people he is far better then but will continue to win and put up great fights and when both careers are done people will sing Paq praises and Mayweather will always have the tarnish of what the people who hate him say is a cheap shot knock out and the people who don't hate him will always say he ducked Paq , Cotto, Margo and even Khan.

[rhinomilk]

I refuse to pay for a Pacquiao or Mayweather fight that isn't Pacquiao vs Mayweather.

[|peetov|]

highbrow - i agree that mayweather wouldn't have necessarily destroyed ortiz, but i do think he was starting to put together some decent combinations when they were in the middle of the ring and loosen up a bit towards the "end." it seemed like some of the combos bothered ortiz but it's always hard to tell with these durable, tough fighters how bothered they really are or if they are just pausing for a moment to regain rhythm or get back into the zone or whatever. i do think the fight was starting to get really interesting, and i was more just going on history of the fights i recall which usually end up looking pretty interesting up until the 4th or so round and then just taper into mayweather dominating with defensive perfomance and slowly wearing the other guy down through selective punching and brilliant defense.

i imagine mayweather is not thrilled to get in there again with another young, hungry, puncher at the risk of blemishing his record. time will tell, but i wouldn't be surpised if you're right and he retires. i think he just wanted to make sure we didn't forget about him......again. i won't forget him. like you said highbrow, i'll remember him as the guy who never seemed to take that hard, obvious fight.

[highbrow]

Peetov. I think it is fair to say in past mayweather has done just what you said, but leading up to the fight I don't think Mayweather took his training or prepared for this fight as he should have. I think he was noticeably slower and his power if he was slower had to have been also an issue. Especially since mayweather as of late is more of a decision fighter then a knockout fighter. I have not seen him like Paq in round 10,11 or 12 turn it on and take someone out. He prides himself on his conditioning and says he is the hardest working athlete in the world. I also think Mayweather regardless of what he said had to be some what nervous at Ortiz having 145 pounds on him, and its ironic Ortiz can hydrate to 17 pounds in 24 hours ( most I have ever seen in boxing ) and Mayweather never brought up things like olympic style testing on him. To me it is suspect he calls for it on Paq, but anyone else it appears not to be a huge issue..

I hope we see a Mayweather vs Paq fight and if we are gonna see it and its not next year its not gonna be worth seeing as Mayweather in another 16 month lay off will not be the boxer he should be, and then if Paq does defeat him people and mayweather will say " he got me on the end of my career" which is ironic cause may weathers last 5 ( besides ortiz ) were all on the way down or down.

Love talking boxing...

Grin I agree Marg. ruined cotto, but even with plaster gloves Paq went after him, Mayweather did not. Boxing is full of fake champions and at times I feel fixes but i love the sport. It is sad a decent fight went by the wayside.

[|peetov|]

"Top Rank promoter Bob Arum wants to be absolutely clear: Manny Pacquiao has agreed to undergo Olympic-style drug testing to fight Mayweather. Forget all the stuff about being afraid of needles or fears of feeling weak because of the amount of blood drawn. Pacquiao is ready to take the tests.

"For a year and a half we've agreed to it," said Arum, who promotes Pacquiao. "I don't know what [Mayweather's] talking about. They keep repeating 'Take the test. Take the test.' We've already agreed to that. There should be no issues now."

Mayweather said last week the only obstacle preventing the much talked about fight with Pacquiao was the Filipino agreeing to be randomly tested for performance enhancing drugs. "If you've got nothing to hide, take the test," Mayweather said repeatedly last week in Las Vegas.

Pacquiao has a Nov. 12 fight with Juan Manuel Marquez at the MGM Grand. It will be the third meeting between the two. If Pacquiao wins, a Mayweather-Pacquiao fight would be eyed for May 2012 as long as Mayweather's legal matters don't make him unavailable.

A next sticking point could be where Pacquiao trains. He prefers to start his camps in the Philippines, but the Mayweather camp believes drug testing could be compromised in the Philippines where the United States Anti-Doping Agency would not have access. Pacquiao, according to Arum, is agreeable to being tested by WADA or the World Anti-Doping Agency, but the Mayweather camp wants him to train in the United States."

mayweather is still saying he'll fight apparently, but we'll see if he stalls long enough for pacquiao to have focused on his country's politics instead of boxing.

www.nypost.com/p/sports/boxing/money_wants_merchant_out_iUXW4gSRpMY1VuDZcbikWJ

also, i can't stand hearing larry merchant take 5 minutes to dribble out a 10 word question.....but wanting him to be fired just because you're a brat is ridiculous.

[highbrow]

Peetov, I read the something as well, another way may weather feels he should be able to control the boxing community when he is involved in a fight. To first ask for the testing is crazy, and then to ask for it on a case by case basis is also crazy. I guess maybe he feels Paq has some type of drug or boost may weather does not know about because he wants impromptu testing on a regular basis, maybe Mayweather should do more research in drugs then if he feels Paq has a leg up and a possible steroid or edge that could be placed in his system two weeks out and yet cleaned out right after the fight.

Also then to know say he wants Paq. to train in America the entire time, come on, it is and will always be a speed bump, maybe Mayweather also wants Paq. to have to spare with him once a week, sleep hanging upside down, shower on odd number days and finally be trained by a goat.

I also agree with Larry Merchant comment, but really who is the lesser of the two evils, Larry who forgot more about boxing then Kellerman knows but takes a week to ask a question, or Kellerman who never will ask a real question to a fighter without taking a brush off answer and get walked on.

I have a local friend artist who's brother has a show on ESPN2 and he interviewed Jim Lampley on his radio show and he mentioned Don King and Tyson had same feeling about Merchant when Tyson was reneg. his HBO deal the first time, when he was knocking people out in like 30 seconds, and one of the deals was HBO had to let go of Merchant, needless to say it would have been a huge deal for HBO as Tyson was huge, but at last it was a deal breaker and HBO let tyson go to Showtime. it appears Larry has a life time understanding with HBO and will leave when he feels he is ready.