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Post by parklife2 on Apr 4, 2012 10:26:30 GMT -8
Headlands Center for the Arts in the Bay Area is having their 30th Anniversary Art Benefit Auction on June 6th. www.headlands.org/event/benefit-art-auction-headlands-at-30/The artists havent been officially announced yet but here's a peek: Tauba Auerbach Margaret Kilgallen Chris Ballantyne Thomas Campbell Paul Wackers I'll post updates when I can... And yes, proxy bidding is an option.. |
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Post by jB on Apr 4, 2012 10:44:55 GMT -8
Looks like a fantastic line up already!!!
I know this auction isn't affiliated with The Luggage Store, but I donated to their last auction/benefit and tried to make a proxy bid and still have yet to ever hear back (happy that it went to a decent cause however, so not upset) but it does makes me a bit hesitant now on purchasing a ticket, especially if I can not attend the auction personally.
Best of luck with the auction. I've always have dreamed of adding a Margaret piece to my collection, maybe one day if I am lucky.
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Post by epicfai on Apr 4, 2012 10:51:33 GMT -8
will there be absentee bidding allowed and will you have to buy a ticket to do that?
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Post by parklife2 on Apr 4, 2012 11:04:40 GMT -8
There will definitely be absentee biding available. When it gets closer I'll post the contact for that.
not yet determined if you need to buy a ticket to proxy bid.
The auction link will go live soon with all the pertinent info.
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Post by jB on Apr 4, 2012 11:34:51 GMT -8
Thanks for the details parklife. If that's the case I would love to have a bid or two.
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Post by epicfai on Apr 11, 2012 15:24:50 GMT -8
any updates?
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Post by Weezy on Apr 11, 2012 19:31:26 GMT -8
This looks appealing, but so far I've been to two charity auctions, and they were frustrating experiences.
I can see the benefit on both sides where in demand pieces get bid up way above market: you can theoretically get access to works you otherwise wouldn't by being able to outbid others to get it, and in the process donate to a good cause as for as low as ~60 cents on the dollar for each dollar you bid above market (depending on your blended tax rate), in some cases with a potential company match on those dollars (which my company has for example).
The problem is that the access is theoretical. I have been willing to bid way above market for a piece I really really wanted but lost it each time. It seems almost rigged or I don't do it enough to know how to play the game correctly or whatever. For that reason, I find them frustrating. And because the art is the draw (the cause may not otherwise be my first choice for charitable spending), I'm not sure I'm likely to continue attending unless I can figure out how to effectively participate.
I've also figured out galleries like to participate to test the market prices they're charging for works. And they likely do a bit of arm twisting of wealthy clients as well.
Anyone have similar experiences or tips?
Weezy
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Post by Weezy on Apr 12, 2012 7:07:07 GMT -8
Agree with Insomniac. The "market" price for a unique work is what you're willing to pay for it, recognizing there might not be another you who values it the same such that you could sell it to someone else at the same price.
Is your point that you shouldn't be duped into paying more than demand would otherwise indicate (meaning the seller would've taken less)? That I'd agree with-- you have to educate yourself as to what the real demand is and try to determine in which instances pricing is being manipulated, and whether that manipulation is keeping prices artificially low (e.g., to create the perspective of frenzied demand and buzz) or high (e.g., to support a previous pricepoint that's no longer an accurate reflection of demand). I find this difficult.
In this case, we're talking about charity auctions, in which case the "overpayment" is going to a charitable cause, so it's in lieu of a donation that you'd otherwise make without any benefit to you of gaining access to a piece of art. And the price of that access is discounted by your tax rate. Charity also may get a boost by company match, but that would be there for any donation (the benefit for the charity is those dollars might have otherwise gone to another organization).
Weezy
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djsp
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Post by djsp on Apr 12, 2012 7:53:53 GMT -8
But really the other thing I wanted to mention Weezy is you don't always get to write off charity auction purchases on your taxes. Sometimes you can but often the write off goes to the artist not the buyer. Double check before you count on that. In almost every case, unless they place the value of the item far above the "actual" value, you can write off the "overpayment" as a charitable donation. That has been my experience. |
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djsp
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Post by djsp on Apr 12, 2012 8:09:25 GMT -8
The other falsity that always comes up in these discussions is that if you consider the investment value of an artwork you don't "love" the piece. I love all the art I own but there is no way I could justify spending money on art without believing there is also a potential return on the piece. I owe it to myself and especially my family to consider these things. Realistically if you take this argument to its logical conclusion, you really should never buy art at all. I mean it is fully a luxury item, has no "real world" value, and if you are not very lucky or have a ton of money to deal in the very high end of the market, your chances of making any great money on a collection by selling it down the road are pretty slim. It will always be a crap shoot as artists come and go, and the value of the art is based on there being at least one other buyer out there who likes that piece just as much as you did, if not more. Unless you have money to burn, I consider art purchases like any other "toys" in my life, if I have the money and I want it, I buy it. But I always consider that money gone. Kind of like buying a TV or a computer. Just my $.02. |
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avert
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Post by avert on Apr 12, 2012 8:38:16 GMT -8
i agree with dollardaze, don't buy art.
except at the headlands auction, of course.
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Post by harveyn on Apr 12, 2012 8:44:27 GMT -8
100% agree dollardaze. Hopefully we all buy art because we love the impact it has on our life's but if you have spent tens/hundreds of thousands of £GBP developing and growing your art collection it would be madness not to take into consideration the commercial value now and in the future. That consideration should be in relation to both new purchases and current works you own. IMO. And on the flip side of that coin you could say that art has cultural, historical and aesthetic value and has been highly desirable throughout history. It's taken a lot of research and a little bit of luck but so far I have a collection ... yes that I "love" ... currently worth at least double what I paid. If I had put my money in CDs instead of art my net worth would currently be about half. If I put my money in TVs and computers my net worth would be about $100. But sure if you're an orphan or an old widow, put your cash in the bank, don't buy art. And it's not all about the money, I really see my collection as cultural window into a period in time. But still I couldn't justify this hobby without rationalizing the cost. |
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djsp
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Post by djsp on Apr 12, 2012 9:15:28 GMT -8
And on the flip side of that coin you could say that art has cultural, historical and aesthetic value and has been highly desirable throughout history. And it's not all about the money, I really see my collection as cultural window into a period in time. But still I couldn't justify this hobby without rationalizing the cost. For sure. I agree. Just advocating for the devil a bit.  |
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Post by droow2 on Apr 12, 2012 9:43:00 GMT -8
It's taken a lot of research and a little bit of luck but so far I have a collection ... yes that I "love" ... currently worth at least double what I paid. oooo! can we see? |
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Post by solar77 on Apr 12, 2012 10:14:38 GMT -8
It's a bit too broad to say that you should NEVER pay over market value.
Sometimes you have to overpay to get the best of the best. If you're choosing wisely, today's overpayment may be tomorrow's steal.
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Post by rizza79 on Apr 12, 2012 10:15:00 GMT -8
It's taken a lot of research and a little bit of luck but so far I have a collection ... yes that I "love" ... currently worth at least double what I paid. oooo! can we see? ^ +1 |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 18:33:58 GMT -8
"Art is one of the few things I have found that can turn money into continued happiness. I have found nothing else that returns the emotional investment better than art, so that's why I collect it. My collection brings me joy and puts a smile on my face every day"
Very well said. This is exactly how I feel about collecting art.
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Post by Weezy on Apr 13, 2012 19:22:50 GMT -8
But really the other thing I wanted to mention Weezy is you don't always get to write off charity auction purchases on your taxes. Sometimes you can but often the write off goes to the artist not the buyer. Double check before you count on that. In almost every case, unless they place the value of the item far above the "actual" value, you can write off the "overpayment" as a charitable donation. That has been my experience. That's right, you can't write off amounts for which you received something of equivalent value. The gallery and/or artist donating the artwork each also would get a deduction for the value they contributed. There's typically even a statement where, e.g., a $200 entry fee or whatever can be written off less whatever a per person allocation for drinks, etc. |
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Post by Weezy on Apr 13, 2012 19:52:37 GMT -8
Agree with djsp and dollar daze, art is a pure luxury item. If you are sacrificing retirement savings, have consumer debt or no rainy day fund, it's probably very good advice to be more providential about your spending than buying art. This year I'm endeavoring to thoughtfully align my collecting with more aggressive financial goals, being more disciplined about my art spend. At least until I find something I cannot live without...  As investments go, as an asset class, most art is probably somewhere just above beanie babies and cabbage patch dolls as an investment. Even if you are spending hundreds of thousands of $, € or £ to thoughtfully build a collection, you're doing it because you can afford to spend your discretionary cash in that way, and in such case consideration of market value is just being used as a proxy for the relative importance of the work, as a reflection of demand across a wide spectrum of persons exposed to the artist or at least broad consensus among influential tastemakers. There's satisfaction in building a collection of works recognized as desirable by a large or influential audience that grows over time, but the fact of owning something that a great many or influential tastemakers desire has its origins in the same need to demonstrate superiority that drives all status purchases. In that sense the market value of such a collection is not an investment justification, as I'm sure there are still assets that would've generated a far superior return than the art collection. I contend that collecting is for the love of art or status, or both, not investment. However much I spend on art is because the piece is worth that or more to me, relative to the opportunity cost of not spending it on other things with utility in my life. Im not sacrificing anything more important or putting my future at risk to buy art. My favorite pieces were not the most expensive, which suggests a premium might have been warranted. I collect because I love how something visual, even if I see it every day, can take my imagination on a momentary journey, and if it is great art there will be subtle changes to that journey each time I engage with the piece. Over time my appreciation of great art will grow. That being said in my Weezy collection posts I've questioned myself whether I've let status thinking influence how I think about a piece, i.e., distinguishing how much I personally love it from how many other people also think it's a great piece of art. That can be challenging. It's easier to have confidence in that distinction if you're the only one who loves it or you fell in love with work that you had no idea was in high demand. Weezy |
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Post by parklife2 on May 2, 2012 19:26:46 GMT -8
The site just went live. www.headlands.org/auction/headlands-at-30/Absentee Bidding available. Dont have to buy a ticket. Really well organized. SOme really great lots..Tauba AUerbach, Kilgallen, Larry Sultan, Alex Soth, CHris Ballantyne, Thomas Campbell, Todd Hido, Ruth Laskey,... A trip to Belize. More lots to be added. I've got my eye on the Jonas Wood Painting. |
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Post by Weezy on May 2, 2012 22:38:11 GMT -8
Thanks Parklife. I agree there are amazing pieces! Im trying again... I put in an absentee bid, so we will see. I did so and then worried how will I get the piece since I'm absentee? There's a vague statement about shipping assistance, but it doesn't inspire much confidence...
Weezy
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Post by parklife2 on May 3, 2012 7:55:50 GMT -8
you can call and retract your bid if you are that worried.
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Post by Weezy on May 3, 2012 11:36:39 GMT -8
Ill think about it. Guess i have until June 6
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avert
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Post by avert on May 3, 2012 18:33:31 GMT -8
from what i read, it seems clear to me.
i'm a little confused what your worried about.
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Post by ksn on May 3, 2012 19:48:58 GMT -8
Really, 8.5 percent sales tax on all purchases??? Yay California. Kinda get use to it after a while  |
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