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Post by ksn on Apr 12, 2012 20:22:58 GMT -8
Hi, I'm new here and to this market as well and I have a lot of questions. Just gonna pump them out here in the hopes that someone will help me out. I see many people online with large collections, who I assume, don't have room to display it all (or own large mansions). Is that excess just being stored in a closet? I own a few limited edition giclee prints, with the most expensive being maybe $200. As a newcomer, I *kind of* feel like I just bought an exorbitantly priced photocopy. Do people often frame these prints, because on that same note, I feel like I'd be framing a photocopy. I'm sure that I am mistaken but I would love to hear someone's rationale. I'm interested in purchasing one of Josh Keyes' for around $600, but hesitant. Do these prints hold their value? I'm not trying to profit, but I would feel a lot better knowing that as an investment, it will somewhat hold its price. Just browsing around these sites is fascinating but also tempts me to buy everything I see (which I definitely can't afford). I've only very recently acquired my first original artwork, but will be looking for maybe one or two more in the next year or so. If I see something I am interested in, how do I know if I'm paying a fair price? Do I compare other pieces by the same artists of the same size and medium? In terms of value, is purchasing artwork from an artist with a large following a fairly safe investment? I wouldn't mind putting down several thousand on something I really liked and I wouldn't be bothered if it depreciated, say, 20% 5 years later, but I would hate it if in 20 years I really need the money but my paintings are worthless because everybody's moved on. My gut tells me large fluctuations in price only go up, but then again, I really don't have much experience with this. How does the frame or lack of account into a sale when discussing pricing? Is it usually negligible when talking about pieces that range into the thousands? When buying original artwork straight from the artist or gallery (in person or online), are prices negotiable? If there's no certificate of authenticity, what are the most important things for me to hold on to? The invoice? There are a few giclee prints that I likely won't put up. Any advice on how best to store them? Right now they're just in the original packaging they were shipped in (a couple in a large envelope and one rolled up in a shipping tube). How do I flatten prints that came shipped in a tube? Sit it on a flat surface for a few days with a weight on all corners? Roll it the opposite way (sounds like a baaaad idea)? Do framers have machines or some technique to flatten prints? Saw someone mention JK forums but search led to no results other than something to do with Jeeps. Trying to figure out what that was too. Very much appreciate any help  |
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Post by highbrow on Apr 13, 2012 20:44:50 GMT -8
First welcome to the board. As far as your questions I am going to do my best to address the ones I can ( normally I just talk out my backside here, still not sure why these guys keep me around ). Prints are not just high priced photocopies. If you do some research some of the printing process along with artists need to have things perfect it truly is amazing. I have prints which I have spent hundreds of dollars framing, they are prints I know I will have hanging on my wall for a long long time.
First advice I got when I started buying prints, and was moving into originals was from this very board a few days after it started. I was told Buy things you love and you will never lose on them. I have sold a few paintings either to fund personal family things or to fund other paintings.
Buying direct online you can try to neg. with a gallery some galleries will work with you depending on how the show or show is selling, or even on how much business you have done with said gallery.
Storing prints look into buying a portfolio I am sure someone can point you the right way and that should help as it sits flat with the rolling issue.
JK is joshkeyes.com and there is a forum on it.
Again welcome and get ready to be broke LOL cause this is a expensive hobby. I like to think I am doing ok in life and love my collection, but when I see somethings that people are purchasing here ( which you would never know as everyone on the board is amazing and no one has the I bought this or that painting so I am better then you ) makes me feel like my collection is doo doo .
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Post by lowpro on Apr 13, 2012 21:55:10 GMT -8
Saw someone mention JK forums but search led to no results other than something to do with Jeeps. Trying to figure out what that was too. Have you heard of google? Try searching "josh keyes forum" and it'll be the first result. |
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Post by Weekender on Apr 14, 2012 2:38:11 GMT -8
Saw someone mention JK forums but search led to no results other than something to do with Jeeps. Trying to figure out what that was too. Very much appreciate any help Indeed JK FOrum will show Jeep Brand which is bigger than Josh Keyes, branding wise.  YOu can find Josh Keyes works and discussion also within this forum, under New COntemporary Arts. Welcome btw! |
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Post by ksn on Apr 14, 2012 2:40:03 GMT -8
First welcome to the board. Thank you. It makes things a lot easier to get some of these questions out of the way rather than struggle through it for a few weeks/months. I am less likely to make mistakes and more confident in my purchases. A lot of the searching I do don't cover these topics or seem to apply to too broad a range of things to answer my questions. Have you heard of google? Try searching "josh keyes forum" and it'll be the first result. Thanks, I guess. A little less obvious when I don't know all the acronyms. Even ones like ISO wasn't so obvious at first. Most subsets of the internet just us WTB or LF. AP = "Archival Print"? APV = "AP version"? If I purchase an original artwork that the artist has only partially previewed on his social networks (fb, twitter), is it common courtesy to wait until he's posted the entire piece before I show my acquisition? |
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Post by ksn on Apr 14, 2012 2:44:59 GMT -8
Indeed JK FOrum will show Jeep Brand which is bigger than Josh Keyes, branding wise. YOu can find Josh Keyes works and discussion also within this forum, under New COntemporary Arts. Welcome btw! Thanks, I started lurking at collectors-society.com's boards a few weeks ago even though I'm not really into comics but that recently led me to here and EB, which I find much more fascinating. It seems like there's a lot more people at EB collecting illustration prints than here, that's just my first impression from the past week. |
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Post by Weekender on Apr 14, 2012 2:45:17 GMT -8
I think there is no problem you posting your new art since it is yours already. SOmetimes artists do not have the time to update their website regularly. Except when it will be for an upcoming show i guess, wait until the preview or show officially opens.
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Post by ricosg11 on Apr 14, 2012 5:39:03 GMT -8
Best advice you can get is EVERYTHING in life is negotiable. Galleries and artists may like to pretend they are different than ordinary businesses, they aren't. They are there to turn a profit. They expect to be asked for discounts. 10% is usually a sure thing. Don't feel bad asking for anything, politely. Cash is king.
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Post by highbrow on Apr 14, 2012 8:49:36 GMT -8
great advice ricosg11
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Post by sin on Apr 14, 2012 9:41:50 GMT -8
I have a fair bit of my collection waiting to be framed. Its a bit embarassing actually.
I have 2 portfolios full of multiples and some original work.
Its an easy buy from your local art supply store. Buy multiple sizes. One, the largest you can possibly find and one that is one step down.
I had intended to buy only original work this year but the guys at 1xrun are killing me. I find setting a budget is important, not because I keep it but because it tells me when I am getting out of hand. Thats my personal approach, never a recomendation.
When dealing with artists or galleries works is always negotiable. Art is an environment where the product is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it, a completely unconrolled commodity. So, whenever possible I try to buy direct from the artist and have had great success there. (Reinier Gamboa, Peeta, Ahol Sniffs Glue have all been great to work with) When dealing with a gallery I spend time getting to know the gallery, I have had good experiences and bad experiences. As stated previously 10% off is a give in, 20% off is a good price any lower than that is a gift. On 1000 purchase from a gallery you should expect that close to 500 of it goes to the gallery.
So welcome, as others have said its an expensive hobby but a fulfilling one, I often relish my morning just walking around the house appreciating the art before I go to work. Its the best investment (money to emotional return) I have ever made.
Craig aka Sin
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Post by ksn on Apr 14, 2012 10:55:43 GMT -8
When dealing with artists or galleries works is always negotiable. Art is an environment where the product is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it, a completely unconrolled commodity. So, whenever possible I try to buy direct from the artist and have had great success there. (Reinier Gamboa, Peeta, Ahol Sniffs Glue have all been great to work with) When dealing with a gallery I spend time getting to know the gallery, I have had good experiences and bad experiences. As stated previously 10% off is a give in, 20% off is a good price any lower than that is a gift. On 1000 purchase from a gallery you should expect that close to 500 of it goes to the gallery. I guess I've already messed this up. Does this vary base on the artist's demand/reputation? I felt like there was a bit of pressure to just buy it before someone else picked it up. If I'm asking for 10-20% off, what's to stop the artist from turning around and selling it to someone else willing pay full price while I'm spending time trying to negotiate? I could just be overestimating the demand, though. |
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Post by ricosg11 on Apr 14, 2012 12:07:12 GMT -8
There's always another bus just around the corner if you miss out. Collecting is a lot like poker, youll see a lot of hands before the right one comes along. It's figuring out which is which that is the difficult part. Best advice you can get is to go to your local museums and galleries and see as much art as you possibly can. You will get an infinite amount more out of the art you enjoy, the more you know about it and art history.
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Post by solar77 on Apr 14, 2012 14:03:13 GMT -8
When dealing with artists or galleries works is always negotiable. Art is an environment where the product is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it, a completely unconrolled commodity. So, whenever possible I try to buy direct from the artist and have had great success there. (Reinier Gamboa, Peeta, Ahol Sniffs Glue have all been great to work with) When dealing with a gallery I spend time getting to know the gallery, I have had good experiences and bad experiences. As stated previously 10% off is a give in, 20% off is a good price any lower than that is a gift. On 1000 purchase from a gallery you should expect that close to 500 of it goes to the gallery. I guess I've already messed this up. Does this vary base on the artist's demand/reputation? I felt like there was a bit of pressure to just buy it before someone else picked it up. If I'm asking for 10-20% off, what's to stop the artist from turning around and selling it to someone else willing pay full price while I'm spending time trying to negotiate? I could just be overestimating the demand, though. If the artist is in huge demand and the show is a guaranteed sell out, you'll be lucky to get a piece, let alone at a discount. Normal shows, you should expect to get 10% towards the start of the show, more towards the end if work's not moving. Stuff that's been in inventory for a while is where you can usually expect to get big discounts. |
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Post by commandax on Apr 14, 2012 14:05:16 GMT -8
When dealing with artists or galleries works is always negotiable. Art is an environment where the product is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it, a completely unconrolled commodity. So, whenever possible I try to buy direct from the artist and have had great success there. (Reinier Gamboa, Peeta, Ahol Sniffs Glue have all been great to work with) When dealing with a gallery I spend time getting to know the gallery, I have had good experiences and bad experiences. As stated previously 10% off is a give in, 20% off is a good price any lower than that is a gift. On 1000 purchase from a gallery you should expect that close to 500 of it goes to the gallery. I guess I've already messed this up. Does this vary base on the artist's demand/reputation? I felt like there was a bit of pressure to just buy it before someone else picked it up. If I'm asking for 10-20% off, what's to stop the artist from turning around and selling it to someone else willing pay full price while I'm spending time trying to negotiate? I could just be overestimating the demand, though. This isn't a hard and fast rule – it completely depends on the collector and the artist. Some collectors are looking for a bargain — that's great. Others want to buy the very best, most impactful and resonant examples of an artist's work... that's another thing altogether. If you are buying from a gallery preview, especially for an in-demand artist, don't expect a discount. You can ask, but unless you have a great reputation as a collector or a pre-existing relationship with the gallery, it's not terribly likely. If it's a strong piece, it's likely there is someone else lined up behind you to buy it. Some galleries will offer to cover the sales tax themselves, which is a nice compromise. If you're willing to wait until the Monday after a show opens to see what's left, you're likely to be able to negotiate a nice 10% to 20% discount. If you're buying a piece a gallery has in inventory, which has been there for a while, go for it. The gallery wants to clear the back room, so they should be willing to make you a great deal. If you're commissioning a piece directly from an artist, you have to consider how much demand there is for their time and what you're asking them to do. If they're selling well and can get their full rate working on something else, they're not going to want to give you much of a discount to paint an art-directed piece. If you're buying an existing piece direct from the artist, you can negotiate the price. But don't under any circumstances expect to get 50% off. That's an insult to the artist and potentially a detriment to their career, if their gallery or any of their other collectors ever find out they're doing that. Often I will just ask the artist to set the price. If you're nice to them, they will almost always offer a discount from their gallery rates. |
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Post by commandax on Apr 14, 2012 14:16:49 GMT -8
Have you heard of google? Try searching "josh keyes forum" and it'll be the first result. Thanks, I guess. A little less obvious when I don't know all the acronyms. Even ones like ISO wasn't so obvious at first. Most subsets of the internet just us WTB or LF. AP = "Archival Print"? APV = "AP version"? AP usually stands for Artist's Proof. Generally there will be several of these for every limited edition. They are separately numbered copies of the print, ostensibly made to check the quality, but in practice (especially with giclees) really just copies of the print the artist gets to keep. With a handmade print, these might actually be versions of the print that were pulled for proofing. The artist will generally not sell these, at least not until the edition is sold out. Sometimes they are given as gifts to friends and special collectors, and you will often see them donated to charitable causes. |
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Post by athena on Apr 14, 2012 18:29:51 GMT -8
I've enjoyed proboards for some time, but joined to get in on this conversation I personally am not sure if I agree with the statement above that everything is negotiable. Usually when you negotiate with a company or business it is on the basis that if they aren't willing to work with you that you will just move on to another business that will, such as negotiating your phone or TV contract with your provider. Another circumstance would be if you were in a good standing with a business - repeat customer. I know galleries are happy to offer a standard discount of 10% to regular collectors, possibly even more depending on the situation. Heck, if I was buying artwork constantly I would see the appeal of asking for discounts. From my point of view though, I'm usually happy to pay full price for an original piece of art and I have for the few originals that I do own. I actually feel quite good after buying a piece of art, knowing that I'm supporting a hard working artist while also getting something that I love in return. It's like buying locally grown vegetables or local meat from independent farms. You could buy cheaper but you believe in the practice and support of your community. I buy most of my gifts for people from artists or family run businesses for this reason. Before I get into it, I just want to say that this is directed more towards artists in the beginning stages of their career. Artists who are just starting out often relinquish their art at low prices. Too often I've seen artists undervalue their work to make a little cash or because they don't believe or know the value of their work. When working with a gallery the artist gives up 50% as a standard. Think about this situation from the artist's point of view - you're just starting out and have got a show at a gallery. Your piece is 18x24" and it is selling at the gallery for $1000 (half of which automatically goes to the gallery). A good standing customer of the gallery likes the work and asks for a discount, 10-20%. Now the work is worth 900-800, or rather 450-400 to the artist. Now I completely support galleries taking a 50% cut, some galleries do a tremendous job of promoting and helping artists (which most of the time bumps up the value of the work). The 10-20% discount doesn't really matter to the gallery, 50-$100, who cares. The collector is happy and the loss of money to the gallery is peanuts, but it does make a difference to the artist who is just starting out. Add up the time it took to create the piece, the materials, shipping costs to get it to the gallery if needed (which the artist pays), it is usually not even worth a fresh artist's time. This isn't meant to be a sob story, just a look into the life of a fresh artist, from the perspective of one. 95% of the people I want to art college with are not artists, not because 95% of the work created wasn't any good, but because it's really hard starting out (which I know can be said for many things). I can say this with first hand experience as an artist. As I said above, this is not a sob story. It's also not a protest or guilt trip for asking a gallery or artist for a discount (you have every right to), it's just something that I think about when buying artwork. I do like a bargain, but it is not my first thought when buying art and it doesn't influence my purchases. I never go into a situation with the expectation that everything is negotiable, because even if money sometimes is, my thoughts and beliefs are not. Just my thoughts (extensive as they are) and feelings. |
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Post by afroken on Apr 15, 2012 1:38:54 GMT -8
Personally I have found that displaying a good amount of knowledge about the context of the artist and piece that you are proposing to buy within the bigger picture of the market is the best way to have a rational and intelligent conversation about discounts with a gallerist. They respond well to that and not so well to simply asking for a discount (I have negotiated discounts of 35% on this basis in the past and I think both I and the galleries in question feel that we arrived at a fair price). By the same premise, knowing when not to ask for one is equally as important and getting it wrong can alienate you from the purchase, and that simply comes down to having a sense of whether being offered that particular piece can be considered a privilege given wider demand. The only exception to this is when you have developed a good long standing relationship with a gallery and can talk more freely with them without risk of getting it wrong. It all comes down to research, experience and common sense.
Athena also makes some good points about ethics, which are very much a personal thing. But I would agree that when the work is clearly cheap because it's an artist starting out, I wouldn't ask for a discount under any circumstances for all the reasons Athena has stated.
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Post by Chop-Logik on Apr 15, 2012 15:25:12 GMT -8
Some galleries will eat the discount (ie. pay the artist 50% of the original agreed value), especially if the discount is made on the spot without consulting the artist. No idea of how standard a practice that is, though.
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Post by Weezy on Apr 15, 2012 18:55:39 GMT -8
Do these prints hold their value? I'm not trying to profit, but I would feel a lot better knowing that as an investment, it will somewhat hold its price. In terms of value, is purchasing artwork from an artist with a large following a fairly safe investment? I wouldn't mind putting down several thousand on something I really liked and I wouldn't be bothered if it depreciated, say, 20% 5 years later, but I would hate it if in 20 years I really need the money but my paintings are worthless because everybody's moved on. My gut tells me large fluctuations in price only go up, but then again, I really don't have much experience with this. There are a few giclee prints that I likely won't put up. My 2 cents is that art is a luxury consumable and should be viewed as such, not as an investment. It's especially dangerous to view art as in investment in terms of generating a return or even holding most of its value if you're hoping to rely on it in any way to backstop your financial security. Demand for artists' work can be as fickle as fashion, and the durability of interest in a particular artist is even more likely to fade over time than not as there's always an influx of someone new, doing something fresh, now and wow. And that's true regardless of how many thousands you might have originally spent. If you bought an artist who's been around a couple decades or more and continues to have a robust demand for his or her work, that work is more likely but still not guaranteed to retain value, and those pieces are likely to be very expensive to start, meaning more dollars are at risk if value plummets. For that kind of cash, there are far superior assets to invest in if maintaining principal or getting a reasonable return are your goals, not consuming art because you enjoy it. As a durable luxury consumable, I can agree with the statement that one can "invest" in art in the getting bang for the buck sense that you're indicating a willingness to spend more in return for a higher quality item. In that sense it's like saying you're "investing" in a BMW M3, a Saville Row suit, designer appliances and furniture, etc., all of which you'd expect to enjoy more, and over a longer period of time, than something of lesser quality, but none of which you'd necessarily expect to retain or increase in value over the same period. If any of my own art turns out to retain its value over time or even become much more valuable in terms of what it might sell for, I think of it as a nice family heirloom or treasure I can pass on to someone who would appreciate such a gift. If I spend what for me is a lot of money on art, I think about the durability of its value in that regard only. If that's "investment" thinking, okay, but I'm not relying on it to retain value or for any return for any personal economic reason, and I'm sure my heirs probably would've preferred the cash, well invested over the balance of my life, to do with what they will rather than a truckload of art of probably mixed value that's a reflection of my tastes not necessarily theirs. I'll be lucky if my whole collection doesn't end up at the Salvation Army or out by the dumpster with the rest of my stuff. Accordingly, I don't even put much weight on the value of my art in that regard, either. I'm buying art for my pleasure; the pleasure of my heirs is only incidental. I'll also admit to the fact that my ego would be stroked if a piece I purchased substantially increased in value by tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, as validation that my own collecting judgments were shared by a broader audience and influential tastemakers, and that I likely have a piece of art historical importance. And I might pat myself on the back for having made a shrewd "investment." That'd be pure ego, though, not investment logic! And even there I'm more likely to be humbled by the fact I spent a bunch more on art that I couldn't unload from a sinking ship. Buying prints is a way to enjoy high quality replicas (they are high tech photocopies) of work of an artist you really admire at a far more affordable pricepoint than an original work by the artist (or if you missed out on an original piece you really love). The whole point of prints is to enjoy the work, so I wonder why you are buying them but not framing them and putting them up? Buyers' remorse? Investment? You shouldn't just look exclusively at prints believing that it's the only way to get quality art at a (relatively) reasonable pricepoint. There's a lot of original artwork that is inexpensive and amazing. The artists may not always have the cachet of those whose prints you may be buying (at least today-- I wouldn't buy on that assumption because they may be out of favor and worthless tomorrow), but to me there's something special about owning an original work, and the luminosity and texture of paint is difficult to replicate in a copy. And it doesn't matter where you live-- nearly my entire collection I purchased online, from galleries all over the world. No matter what you do, whether it is a print or original, buy what you love and put it up and enjoy it. I'm always dumbstruck by people who have nothing on their walls, not even a thumbtacked poster. Luxury consumable or not, I can't imagine living without art on the walls. Pricing and acquiring very high demand artists is something nobody can teach; I think you have to try to learn as much as you can by talking to people but it's mostly going to come from doing, and sometimes getting burned in the process. In the end, you shouldn't pay more for something than it's worth to you personally-- not letting yourself be influenced by anyone telling you that buying a work from artist X, particularly a replica of a work of artist X, is a sound financial investment. If you do that, you can't overpay or make a mistake. I've personally found collecting extremely difficult, much moreso than I would've ever expected to be the case. It's the art that matters, and there's an undeniable thrill in acquiring a great piece from an artist you've been pursuing aggressively for some time. In terms of collecting overload, I'm getting close to the point where I'm going to need to start (a) being more selective and (b) rotating work (or move into a bigger home). Any advice on storage Artchival members? I'm thinking my guest bedroom closet probably isn't the safest place. Weezy |
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Post by ksn on Apr 16, 2012 0:53:52 GMT -8
As a durable luxury consumable, I can agree with the statement that one can "invest" in art in the getting bang for the buck sense that you're indicating a willingness to spend more in return for a higher quality item. In that sense it's like saying you're "investing" in a BMW M3, a Saville Row suit, designer appliances and furniture, etc., all of which you'd expect to enjoy more, and over a longer period of time, than something of lesser quality, but none of which you'd necessarily expect to retain or increase in value over the same period. I guess that was how I was trying to portray why I am making these purchases. I have no intention of selling or trading my purchases unless absolutely necessary. With a car, I know what I can expect out of it in terms of enjoyment, and when it comes time to sell it, there's no real difference between the best and the worst case scenario. Cars are different though, if I'm purchasing a new car, I am likely to sell off the old. I guess my question is purely hypothetical. If I buy a Josh Keyes original for 40k, and he blows up even bigger than he is now and its worth 400k, I likely wouldn't sell it, but I'd be proud to be the owner of an original (because I wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise), and it would be a great piece to pass on to future generations. But what would be worst case scenario? He's not going to paint 150 more copies of the exact the same thing. The hype may move on to another style of art, but that piece I purchased is not going to look any worse. The technology behind its creation (paint and canvas) is not going to become outdated. If any of my own art turns out to retain its value over time or even become much more valuable in terms of what it might sell for, I think of it as a nice family heirloom or treasure I can pass on to someone who would appreciate such a gift. If I spend what for me is a lot of money on art, I think about the durability of its value in that regard only. If that's "investment" thinking, okay, but I'm not relying on it to retain value or for any return for any personal economic reason, and I'm sure my heirs probably would've preferred the cash, well invested over the balance of my life, to do with what they will rather than a truckload of art of probably mixed value that's a reflection of my tastes not necessarily theirs. I'll be lucky if my whole collection doesn't end up at the Salvation Army or out by the dumpster with the rest of my stuff. Accordingly, I don't even put much weight on the value of my art in that regard, either. I'm buying art for my pleasure; the pleasure of my heirs is only incidental. If I knew my possessions would end up in a dumpster or donated to the Salvation Army after I'm gone, making these purchases would be much harder for me. Knowing that the demand is going to dwindle down to nothing, I'd most definitely still buy it, but I'd wait to purchase at a price that isn't inflated due to demand and use that extra money elsewhere. I don't have unlimited funds, my enjoyment of these purchases purely as art is always going to be there, but like most people I want to spend my money wisely. $600 for art I fall in love with might not be a whole lot, but it is for a piece of paper that came out of a printer. If the artist sold it for $600, than I've got nothing to say, I'd make the purchase with little hesitation, but the particular one I'm looking at probably sold for $2-300. If I'm going to to pay 3 times its original value, I'd feel more confident in my purchase knowing that demand isn't likely to completely disappear. Can we not look back in time and find worst case scenarios for prints or is it still too early? Buying prints is a way to enjoy high quality replicas (they are high tech photocopies) of work of an artist you really admire at a far more affordable pricepoint than an original work by the artist (or if you missed out on an original piece you really love). The whole point of prints is to enjoy the work, so I wonder why you are buying them but not framing them and putting them up? Buyers' remorse? Investment? Prints are cheaper than originals for sure, but it's not always affordable. So many pieces are printed on limited runs creating a demand similar to the original art but at a lower pricepoint. This forces late adopters to purchase "copies" for up to thousands of dollars. There are a few reasons for me, though, the biggest being that I bought several JJ prints before I got into this more seriously, and now that I have, I would like to diversify. I've seen photos where folks stack 10-15 pieces of art on the same wall, and no disrespect to them (they can do what they want with their purchases), but i feel like it's way too distracting. I'd like to be much more selective and put maybe one or two pieces per room. That said, I love the pieces that I purchased and the ones I don't have room for, I'd like to keep and store them because I always have the option of putting them up (rather than seeking them out in the future and possibly paying an inflated price). You shouldn't just look exclusively at prints believing that it's the only way to get quality art at a (relatively) reasonable pricepoint. There's a lot of original artwork that is inexpensive and amazing. The artists may not always have the cachet of those whose prints you may be buying (at least today-- I wouldn't buy on that assumption because they may be out of favor and worthless tomorrow), but to me there's something special about owning an original work, and the luminosity and texture of paint is difficult to replicate in a copy. And it doesn't matter where you live-- nearly my entire collection I purchased online, from galleries all over the world. I've actually made 2 original purchases thus far. The first being from an artist with a large following and the second from one with very little internet following (as far as I can tell). The second piece was much larger and a bit cheaper. For both his and my sake, I hope he makes it big, but not because I'm thinking about money, but like you said because it validates that my own judgments are shared by a broader audience and that I would likely have a piece of historical importance. |
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Post by ksn on Apr 16, 2012 0:56:39 GMT -8
Also, I wanted to add that I appreciate all the thoughtful responses. This is the internet after all and I always feel the need to brace myself for condescending remarks, especially when asking questions |
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Post by voleboy on Apr 16, 2012 5:06:05 GMT -8
I've actually made 2 original purchases thus far. The first being from an artist with a large following and the second from one with very little internet following (as far as I can tell). The second piece was much larger and a bit cheaper. For both his and my sake, I hope he makes it big, but not because I'm thinking about money, but like you said because it validates that my own judgments are shared by a broader audience and that I would likely have a piece of historical importance. OK, I am intrigued... |
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Post by cpk on Apr 16, 2012 18:18:58 GMT -8
If any of my own art turns out to retain its value over time or even become much more valuable in terms of what it might sell for, I think of it as a nice family heirloom or treasure I can pass on to someone who would appreciate such a gift. If I spend what for me is a lot of money on art, I think about the durability of its value in that regard only. If that's "investment" thinking, okay, but I'm not relying on it to retain value or for any return for any personal economic reason, and I'm sure my heirs probably would've preferred the cash, well invested over the balance of my life, to do with what they will rather than a truckload of art of probably mixed value that's a reflection of my tastes not necessarily theirs. I'll be lucky if my whole collection doesn't end up at the Salvation Army or out by the dumpster with the rest of my stuff. Accordingly, I don't even put much weight on the value of my art in that regard, either. I'm buying art for my pleasure; the pleasure of my heirs is only incidental. I like your line of thinking, with the exception of the pessimism, and that is only because I want to delude myself into thinking that my heirs will appreciate all of the treasure I have collected throughout my life I also want to second your statement that I bolded. Hopefully, my future child will have an appreciation for art. To address ksn's concern on paying a premium for prints: I have bought a handful of prints on the secondary market and paid a premium that I would not see return on now and nor, I suspect, in the future-especially with framing costs. A couple I regret because, in hindsight, I do not appreciate the image as much as other things I could have purchased with the money. Then there are a couple that I could not fathom living without them hanging on my wall. At least for me, spending money wisely goes out the window if I am really in love with a piece. It becomes a matter of "can I afford it?" If you are having "is this a wise decision" thoughts, then maybe you are not as in love as you think and it may be better to save your money for something else. I started collecting in mid 2010 and since then, I am getting better telling the difference between my feelings of truly loving a work and passing lust. Not saying you operate the same what I do, just relaying my experience |
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