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Post by pricklypete on May 26, 2010 16:21:04 GMT -8
I just had an appraisal done for State Farm by a local certified appraiser. Although she specializes in jewelry, I think it was accepted because she runs an appraisal business. They might think that a gallery is biased. I would suggest calling up your local agent and having them recommend an appraiser. That's what I did and everything was approved no problem. Almost a $100k of art insurance for less than $300 a year. I was told that anyone in the art business would be sufficient. That the requirements weren't as stringent as with antiques. I'm still waiting for a return call with some kind of explanation.
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Post by pricklypete on May 27, 2010 12:33:31 GMT -8
I finally got the call and the issue was that even though they didn't ask for it initially they need to know the medium. It's a simple issue but they of course send the nasty letter first. I'm just glad I can solve this easily.
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Post by highbrow on May 27, 2010 13:15:35 GMT -8
Epic I would recontact USAA I was told ( and had to make a claim ) for damage when the wind slammed my front door knocking two works to the ground damaging both and they told me on my rider ( it is a valuable personal property ) goes as far as to cover my computer if I leave it somewhere. I would call and ask to speak with someone they are great
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Post by troom on May 28, 2010 15:14:52 GMT -8
I'm meeting with my ins. broker in 20 min. and signing up for a policy with house two cars and extra for artwork @ $1 per $1000 on the art. He put me in a company called Allied, and all they need is documentation (pics), estimated value and a description, NO appraisal. Art is covered against everything except war, nuclear accident, wear and tear, flood and earthquake.
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Post by epicfai on May 28, 2010 18:51:51 GMT -8
Epic I would recontact USAA I was told ( and had to make a claim ) for damage when the wind slammed my front door knocking two works to the ground damaging both and they told me on my rider ( it is a valuable personal property ) goes as far as to cover my computer if I leave it somewhere. I would call and ask to speak with someone they are great Hey Highbrow, I did speak with them and they clarified. It is covered against everything except negligence or intentional damage (no surprise on that one). Very happy with that actually.
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Post by The Gorgon on Oct 23, 2010 23:36:48 GMT -8
Hi Art Peeps,
This is a great thread. I almost want to say it has to be mandatory reading for anyone who joins the bulletin board.
So I'm currently trying to get my collection insured and they do require some form of appraisal. I got a hold of an appraiser who is certified by the Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice of the Appraisal Foundation (USPAP), so I know they're legitimate.
The estimate I received to do the job is $2000. I was expecting somewhere in the neighborhood of $500. Is this what everyone else paid?
I have about 25 pieces in my collection from 10 artists.
Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks
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Post by Weezy on Oct 24, 2010 9:19:23 GMT -8
I just did this for my entire collection and didn't pay anything. I contacted the gallerists from whom I bought the work or who currently represent the artists. In one case, a gallery gave me an appraisal for a work I bought in a charity auction they'd donated the piece to (good b/c I bought for $85 and it was appraised at $2,500). In another case I got an appraisal from a gallery that currently represents the artist, even though I'd bought the piece from another gallery.
I'm insured through State Farm.
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Post by sleepboy on Oct 24, 2010 9:51:31 GMT -8
Yes, I agree with weezy. I had a gallerist do it for free. Now, you just have to get the insurance company to accept it though, so it really depends. I would shop around until you found an company that takes gallerists as appraisers...
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Post by The Gorgon on Oct 24, 2010 10:49:53 GMT -8
Sleepboy / Weezy,
Thanks guys. I also did contact a gallerist whom I did purchase most of the artwork from. He's agreed to do it, and will get back to me next week. As for the fee, we have yet to discuss the details when he returns from his trip. I wouldn't mind paying a small fee (ie $500), but $2000 was a little out of my league.
I really do hope that my insurance is willing to take the gallerist appraisal. I'll keep you guys posted.
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Post by highbrow on Oct 24, 2010 11:28:32 GMT -8
I also have had my works appraised by galleries as well, I am with USAA and again they way I preach about them you would think I work for them, but had two works damaged in my move ( two works which were in storage and not hanging ) both works one framed paper, other canvas were damaged very bad. USAA asked me to find a repair person, which I did dropped the works off with the value, repair company informed me the cost of repair and loss of value because repair would make the works costless. USAA paid me my gallery appraisal for the works and even had them picked up and destroyed at the repair shop. great company if you can get them I say do it now, never an issue and were fast to handle my payout even though the damage came during a move
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Post by Weezy on Feb 12, 2012 11:23:23 GMT -8
State Farm, which insures my art, just recently denied coverage for pieces purchased abroad on the basis of needing a US appraisal, apparently meaning they won't even accept an invoice of purchase from a European gallery. I'm so mad I can't see straight, and I'm going to pull all my insurance coverage from them if this isn't easily resolved.
Anyone recommend a fine arts insurer who hasn't put you through this kind of stuff?
Weezy
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Post by bigstrunso on Feb 12, 2012 11:39:34 GMT -8
USAA
Set it and forget it.
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Post by amin on Feb 12, 2012 12:21:35 GMT -8
USAA Set it and forget it. don't you have to be ex-military or inherit from someone who was in the military? i have it and they are awesome. got a free $30k roof/attic last year
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Post by epicfai on Feb 12, 2012 13:24:58 GMT -8
USAA Set it and forget it. don't you have to be ex-military or inherit from someone who was in the military? i have it and they are awesome. got a free $30k roof/attic last year I use USAA and they are simply the best. I inherited eligibility from my father who is ex-military. Not sure if their insurance products are available more widely or not, but if you can get a policy with them - do it!
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Post by goldenrose on Feb 12, 2012 13:49:24 GMT -8
This is a great thread and very helpful thanks everyone for posting.
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Post by bigstrunso on Feb 12, 2012 14:47:09 GMT -8
Anyone can sign up for it now I believe. It used to be just officers and their families that could sign up, then it changed to include enlisted military and now I'm pretty sure that anyone may sign up.
In my experience, they beat out every other insurance company for every type of insurance I use.......and the customer service is off the hook. I've had totaled cars, damaged art and also used their investment services. All top notch imo.
Anyone else ever have a different experience?
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Post by Weezy on Feb 15, 2012 23:02:21 GMT -8
So my dad was in the army in the 60s but did not have USAA. And He is not the type of person who will have retained records of his service. I was not in the military myself, unfortunately, so from their website it appears I would not qualify to be insured by them. You have to have been in the US military or have a US military parent insured by USAA.
Livid about State Farm. Anyone have any other ideas?
Weezy
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Post by cpk on Feb 15, 2012 23:47:18 GMT -8
I have Travelers. I like their customer service but have never had to file a claim. My friend referred me and she has had them for years. No major claims either though. They have a few different options for riders.
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Post by The Gorgon on Mar 5, 2012 22:27:25 GMT -8
From Bloomburg news. Link to follow.
Most people buy art because they love to look at it, but there's always the hope that the payoff will go beyond aesthetics. The prices of photographer Cindy Sherman's works have risen 11-fold in 15 years, according to Artnet, while Gerhard Richter's paintings are 37 times more expensive. Damien Hirst's works are up 22-fold, while works by Jean-Michel Basquiat and Andy Warhol have both risen 19-fold.
Investing in the right artist, however, can be a crapshoot, and owning artwork can involve substantial hassles. Many collectors must worry about insurance premiums, art dealers, thieves, taxes and most of all, the fickleness of the art world. Dorit Straus knows all about these complications from three decades working with collectors at the Chubb Group of Insurance Companies, where she is now the insurer’s worldwide fine art manager. Bloomberg.com’s Ben Steverman spoke with Straus, an archaeologist by training, about the challenges of owning art. Edited excerpts of their interview follow.
Q: Is art an asset class like stocks and bonds?
A: There is some merit to that line of thought. A lot of people have a large portion of their assets in their art collections and they may not know it. It’s certainly important for financial planners to discuss this issue.
There are lots of downsides to art as investment. There are costs of maintaining art. The physical condition of your stock or fund doesn’t matter, but you have to make sure your work of art is in pristine condition, particularly in today’s economy. My advice to most people: Art is not a commodity. It's an aesthetic object. If it turns out that you have made money on your initial investment, that’s great, but the most important thing is your appreciation of the art. I know that's kind of corny.
Q: I imagine it's difficult to predict which artworks are going to increase in value.
A: Correct, because there’s no one art market. It’s a question of fashion. That’s not to say people haven’t made a lot of money on art. I see it every day looking at the collections we insure.
Whether you're buying for investment or aesthetic purposes, I recommend people get the advice of art advisers. The art market is capricious and you have to find the right buyer at the right time. A lot of our clients -- major collectors -- put works up for sale and they don’t sell. These are good works of art.
Art advisers and art dealers do establish a market. I don’t know about the idea that people, on their own, are discovering new artists in the hope those artists will turn into the next Damien Hirst. You may not be able to unload it at all.
Q: What do art collectors need to know when it comes to protecting their works?
A: Insurance is not all about price. It’s about terms and conditions. Look at the financial strength of the companies. What is the track record of that insurance company and how do they pay claims?
The insurance company can be very helpful to you. We have as much of an interest in protecting the art as the owner. It’s good for the client to have the company come in and look at how the art is protected in your home.
Also, when you’re moving art between homes or selling it, improper packing can result in damage. We’d rather help you deal with that by directing people to the right packers and shippers.
[Chubb and other insurers sell special art policies because basic homeowners' insurance usually covers just $1,000 to $2,000 in art, with added coverage available for up to $200,000 per item, according to the Insurance Information Institute. Homeowners' policies generally won't provide extra services offered in special policies, including advice on storage, coverage of appreciation or loss in value of the art, and damage caused by earthquakes, floods and transportation of pieces.]
Water damage is something most people don't think of. You read a lot about heists. What you don’t read in the paper is when a penthouse roof is inundated with water, which seeps into the walls and a beautiful painting is turned into mush. You have all sorts of situations involving weather. The climate has changed. Fires are a big cause of loss. We have a special program for wildfire protection.
Q: How have the economic disruptions of the last few years affected the art market?
A: In 2009 and most of 2010, people were not buying and selling in the open market. People were afraid to put things up for auction because if it didn’t sell, it would mar the salability of the item. A lot of these deals were done more privately. Eventually things did turn around. The contemporary art market is rebounding at the top level. You’ve had an international influx of people with a lot of money -- the Russians, the Chinese and other Far Eastern people. There are still a lot of things that are not selling. The middle and lower market is still tough.
Q: Owning art can complicate estate planning. Do you have any advice?
A: I would suggest a really good inventory. Bring in an outside expert like an appraiser. Valuations may fluctuate. You may have three children that have gotten paintings of unequal value, and that might create a dispute within the family.
The tax implications are definitely something to think about. Art is not taxed at the [low] 15 percent capital gains rate, so I'd suggest one find an estate attorney that knows about tax rules and art. See whether it's important to set up some sort of foundation or trust.
The other thing to think about is whether any philanthropy should be included in the estate planning. Understand that every cultural institution has a different mission. Your painting may not be what that institution wants.
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Post by The Gorgon on Mar 5, 2012 22:29:24 GMT -8
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Post by sleepboy on Jul 14, 2012 21:50:56 GMT -8
I'm ashamed to say that I haven't gotten insured yet but really want to get serious now. Anyone have any experience with Farmer's Insurance?
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Post by The Gorgon on Jul 17, 2012 10:44:26 GMT -8
I'm ashamed to say that I haven't gotten insured yet but really want to get serious now. Anyone have any experience with Farmer's Insurance? I'm guilty of the same thing Sleepy. I'm with Farmers and they asked me to hire an appraiser to valuate my collection. However, when I did speak to an appraiser it was in the range of $2000, which is a lot right now. I still haven't had my collection appraised, thus still not insured. Sucks.
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Post by sketchv on Jul 17, 2012 11:58:50 GMT -8
Annie Adjchavanich did a great job appraising my Zombie Mystery Painting: www.anniea.com/#homeDidn't cost an arm or a leg either...
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Post by commandax on Jul 17, 2012 13:11:10 GMT -8
If you don't want to shell out for an appraiser, you can always ask the insurance company to value the work you own at the purchase price. It forces you to get your documentation organized, which is a good thing if you're serious about your collection. When you're ready to have it appraised, you can upgrade your insurance rider to reflect any increase in value.
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Post by sleepboy on Jul 17, 2012 17:41:01 GMT -8
If you don't want to shell out for an appraiser, you can always ask the insurance company to value the work you own at the purchase price. It forces you to get your documentation organized, which is a good thing if you're serious about your collection. When you're ready to have it appraised, you can upgrade your insurance rider to reflect any increase in value. I guess I shouldn't have gone with the no tax / no receipt option on some of them Farmer's agent says that they can only insure up to 60% of the value of the home which isn't enough. They say they can list it as a commercial insurance and treat it like an art gallery, but not sure if they will not pay out if something happens if i go that route.
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