Dear carcrash...

[markbrown]

Dear Carcrash,
Mark Brown here,

I've been reading this discussion group for quite a while now,
and have really enjoyed and appreciated the thoughtful discussion by knowledgeable and passionate art enthusiasts.

I have also been unable to avoid your posts dealing with my work, starting with
"I think it's a lot Mark Ryden, a lot Todd Schorr, a little bit Bob Dob, and a wee bit Mark Brown... "
and culminating with a reference to another artist as the the "Mark Brown of Hawaiiana".

Now don't get me wrong. I have no problem if you don't care for my artwork. That's cool.
What I do have a problem with, is that it would appear that you are insinuating that I am in some way, unscrupulously copying, steeling, imitating, or "biting" other artists' work.
Hopefully I'm misunderstanding, and you aren't actually blatantly accusing me of ripping them off.

I love what I do, have spent most my life developing the skills to get this far, and am pretty proud of my paintings.
I'm just getting started on my lifelong dream of a career in the gallery world and this is how I make my living,
so before things get any more out of hand, I feel it's time to defend myself and my work.

Let's get started.

Carcrash, if you would be so kind as to help me understand exactly what it is that you are saying?

Specifically, I have a few questions about some of your statements...

1. How do my paintings in your opinion, look too much like Mark Ryden's work?
2. Where do you see me copying Todd Schorr?
3. What, in my work appears to you to have been stolen from Bob Dob?
4. Please explain what compelled you to write that it looks like Andrew Brandau worked on a painting of mine?
5. Would you please elaborate on what in my "Candy Monster" painting is copying Dan May's work?

and if you have the time,

6. Exactly why would you refer to me as the "Mr. Brainwash of pop surrealism."
7. What causes you to use my name when discussing a completely unrelated artist?


Thank you for your time, and please feel free to be as specific as you'd like.

-Mark

[richardtharbaugh]

I'm glad that love what you don, that you're finding fulfillment in the arts, and you're continuing to develop your skills.

When Sleepboy first posted a couple pieces on here he'd bought from Jensen at Gallery 1988 after a hype inducing email was sent. Sleepboy also said, "Seems to be a Mark Ryden & Todd Schorr influence to his work."

I said, "I think it's a lot Mark Ryden, a lot Todd Schorr, a little bit Bob Dob, and a wee bit Mark Brown... But I like it." - Which, isn't a totally negative comment.

At a quick glance, I get a kick out of some of your imagery.

Within the context of modern pop surrealism, much of your work is quite derivative of some of the heaviest hitters in the scene. Many of your characters are proportioned, and have faces like Bob Dob's characters. www.bobdob.com/?page_id=3

Some of them are near spitting images. Much of the symbolism and numerology, along with the types of characters you paint - are highly reminiscent of the work Mark Ryden has done, particularly that of the mid 90's through the first few years of the 2000's. markryden.com/paintings/index.html

The reference of Todd Schorr was in relation to the composition of many of your images. You've used a sense of clustered busyness, like Schorr.

I was not trying to say, you're copying these three people - exactly. I makes making something closer to a baking analogy and saying that I saw imagery that was very reminiscent to the artists that dominate the genre you're working in, and very little that was personally unique.

That said, I don't find anything to be wrong with you creating in that light. I think you're still maturing as an artist, and I have a feeling you'll settle into style and mind's-eye-view that's much more unique to you. I hope so.

I do think it's a slight to some established artists to have your work get heavy handed lauding by gallery representation and blogs, if they're aware of any pop surreal history. I think you show promise, but I don't think you're ready for prime time.

I vaguely recall the Andrew Brandau reference. I remember it being about characters in your piece being quite similar to those in AB's Hexagram painting. I tried going back to the preview of your show, but most of the images are down. www.excellentvirtu.com/andrew_brandou_aka_howdy_pardner.htm

The Dan May reference was in relation to "Boy Meets Monster". "Monster" is quite reminiscent to the staple monster in many of Dan's paintings.

I'm not saying you're out and out copying anybody. I'm saying I can look at what you do, and other artist's names pop into my head, lickety-split. It's the same for me looking at Mr. Brainwash's work.

Then, for the last of the extra credit questions... You popped into my head when I saw that melting pot of Hawaiian art. For me, your work is a melting pop of surrealism. It's not a copy, but it's not very original either.

Cheers to spending your time with paint brushes, though - and I hope your work continues to mature, as I do for everyone making a living in the trade.

Dec 15, 2009 13:23:04 GMT -8 markbrown said:

Dear Carcrash,
Mark Brown here,

I've been reading this discussion group for quite a while now,
and have really enjoyed and appreciated the thoughtful discussion by knowledgeable and passionate art enthusiasts.

I have also been unable to avoid your posts dealing with my work, starting with
"I think it's a lot Mark Ryden, a lot Todd Schorr, a little bit Bob Dob, and a wee bit Mark Brown... "
and culminating with a reference to another artist as the the "Mark Brown of Hawaiiana".

Now don't get me wrong. I have no problem if you don't care for my artwork. That's cool.
What I do have a problem with, is that it would appear that you are insinuating that I am in some way, unscrupulously copying, steeling, imitating, or "biting" other artists' work.
Hopefully I'm misunderstanding, and you aren't actually blatantly accusing me of ripping them off.

I love what I do, have spent most my life developing the skills to get this far, and am pretty proud of my paintings.
I'm just getting started on my lifelong dream of a career in the gallery world and this is how I make my living,
so before things get any more out of hand, I feel it's time to defend myself and my work.

Let's get started.

Carcrash, if you would be so kind as to help me understand exactly what it is that you are saying?

Specifically, I have a few questions about some of your statements...

1. How do my paintings in your opinion, look too much like Mark Ryden's work?
2. Where do you see me copying Todd Schorr?
3. What, in my work appears to you to have been stolen from Bob Dob?
4. Please explain what compelled you to write that it looks like Andrew Brandau worked on a painting of mine?
5. Would you please elaborate on what in my "Candy Monster" painting is copying Dan May's work?

and if you have the time,

6. Exactly why would you refer to me as the "Mr. Brainwash of pop surrealism."
7. What causes you to use my name when discussing a completely unrelated artist?


Thank you for your time, and please feel free to be as specific as you'd like.

-Mark

[steveinca]

Mark,
You shouldn't take offense to what carcrash said. I am often told that I look like Leonardo DiCaprio and Brad Pitt, but i never take offense to it. I just let it bounce right off of me.

In all seriousness, I think a lot of us in our little community, myself included, like to analyze and breakdown people's work. Be it in a good way or bad way, we like to do it because it conjures up conversation amongst the boardies. Best of luck to you with your work!

After looking at your website, I can definitely see some similarities. I don't think that's a bad thing at all. I think all artists draw inspiration from other artists. Not saying that you purposely do, but I definitely see some similarities....

I see a bit of Ryden here


Dan May comes to mind here


Todd Schorr comes to mind here

Like I said, I don't think there's anything wrong with having similar work to another artist. Haven't most masters proudly stated who their influences are? In my humble opinion you're extremely talented and I've always been a fan of the work I've seen. Keep it up!

[richardtharbaugh]

Ray Caesar?

cgi.ebay.com/MARK-BROWN-painting-strange-odd-beautiful-unique-sexy_W0QQitemZ270499689636QQcmdZViewItemQQptZArt_Paintings?hash=item3efb09b4a4

[markbrown]

Thanks for elaborating and taking the time to explain your statements.
I honestly do appreciate it.

Just a few things...

Mark Ryden / Todd Schorr:
You got me there. These are absolutely my strongest influences.
When I was starting to get into painting, these guys already owned half my imagination. Along with Burton, Gilliam, and the rest.
As far as clustering business goes, I'm not sure that's a problem.
This is the kind of art I've known and loved for the past 25 years or so. And I have to start with what I know.
When I'm painting, I'm constantly thinking of how to do something in a different way than Ryden. Eventually,
I'll have new ways to do everything, while hopefully keeping just a hint of whatever it is in Ryden and Schorr's work that makes me happy.


Bob Dob:
Big red eyes, red noses, Big Heads, Oh, and they're wearing suits. Wouldn't say spitting images by any means.
It is your opinion though, and a strong one, so I'm sure other people feel the same way. Something I'll watch out for.

Andrew Brandau:

Here's my painting

Here's Mr. Brandau's

I may be missing something, but the only similarity I can see is there is that I painted a rabbit character.
I'm sorry, but I do paint rabbit characters now and then, and as rabbits go, there aren't really that many ways to paint one.


Dan May:

My Monster:

His Monster:

Both are big, white, hairy monsters. I have to say though, that I just don't think they are that similar. Distant cousins maybe. The background on this one is pretty close though. Weird, if I had been thinking of Dan May's monsters when I painted mine I probably would have checked out his website site before I painted it and avoided that. But Dan May honestly didn't cross my mind.

As far as an original voice and my "mind's-eye-view" goes, I think a lot of that is your opinion,
but it is something I'm always working on, and as things progress, I'm sure my voice will be more apparent.

A slight to established artists?
Wow. That's really a helluva thing to say.
From what I've seen, pretty much all the artists working in this scene are working as hard as they can,
and should be recognized for what they're doing.
Also, speaking from my short and relatively limited one and a half years experience showing in galleries,
I'm pretty sure there isn't a shortage of Blog space, or from my experience, galleries and art reps for that matter.

Not ready for prime time?
Again, wow. Don't really know what to say about that. Thanks for the input though.

A melting "pop" of surrealism?
Nice! I see what you did there.

Seriously though, like I said, I am just starting and I absolutely need the critism, but,
it's a bummer that whenever anybody searches for my name on here, most of what they see are your snarky posts.
I know it's a free country and you'll probably keep hacking away at me anyway, but I had to give it a shot.

By the way, I'll be in San Francisco in June for a solo show at Gallery 1988.
If you get a chance, stop by. I'd love to meet you in person so we can continue the conversation.

Thanks again for your time,
Mark

[amin]

mark, for what it's worth you should have pm'd carcrash directly rather than opening this up for discussion. the harshest critics are on forums

[sleepboy]

I didn't really think he was copying Ryden or Schorr, but was influenced by them, I think Mark has his own distinctive "look." By influence, I mean more ideas and composition. If you put one of his characters up next to Ryden's work or Schorr, I don't think you can say they look the same.

I respect your opinion Richard, but personally, his Yeti didn't remind me of Dan May, Yeti's are hairy by nature. The Brandau I don't see much similarities.

[sebreg]

Yes, I don't think carcrash was trying to be be mean. An honest opinion, yes, but going out of his way to hurt you, I don't think so.

There is nothing wrong with being strongly influenced by an artist, I think it is quite normal, best way to develop one's style is to take from other's (but not steal of course, haha!), and then over time one's style develops naturally and becomes more one's own and leaves off of previous influences.

I have no problem with your work or it's influences. It is obviously not copying, unique to yourself, but it has its pop surrealist influences.

And it's the 1st time I've seen your work, and I'm enjoying it! I can't wait to see more work and see where you take things.

And remember, there are always critics! don't let them get you too down, sometimes they can be on point, sometimes way off base, but what's most important is that you enjoy the work you do. And you can't please everyone all the time...

[richardtharbaugh]

I never said that I thought Mark was copying Ryden or Schorr. I don't think there's anything at all wrong with people liking his work. Art is certainly to be enjoyed those who choose to visit it in a gallery or museum, then those who choose to purchase and display it.

My critique is that the work is highly derivative of a select, very distinguishable group of artists.

When Mark Ryden began showing at Mendenhall, I don't recall people seeing the art, in person or online at the dawn of the Internet age - looking at the work and saying, "This looks a lot like artist X, artist Y, and artist Z."

I certainly don't think that Mark Brown is void of talent, and my "not ready for prime time" commentary is rooted in the notion that as his work progresses and time passes, it will become more "Mark Brown" and less the name of any other artist(s) at a first glance.

I hope, and expect that to be the case.

That said, to me it seems disingenuous for an established gallery to present it on a silver platter... And that said, not at all isolated to this artist, but in my mind, Gallery 1988 has jumped the shark into the realm of novelty in the past year or so.

Do what you do, and do good while doing well. Aside from that, to the artist, the only advice I'll offer is not to sell your art to bozos who will wholesale it out on eBay at deeply less than the prices you're trying to establish at brick and mortar galleries.