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Post by afroken on Jun 28, 2012 10:56:56 GMT -8
an 84 inch Hirst spin painting doesn't get a single bid and stalls at £190k and then that little thing sells for that. All change at the top then! Out with the old and in with the new.
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Post by ricosg11 on Jun 28, 2012 11:02:12 GMT -8
dat shit is cray brah! Good for her! I prefer the photos....
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prpr
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Post by prpr on Jun 29, 2012 10:10:06 GMT -8
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Post by rizza79 on Jun 29, 2012 15:10:53 GMT -8
I personally don't understand this and quite honestly have a very hard time believing that its not a bit of manipulation. Call me negative, but these sort of auction results for artists at her level are a bit questionable. |
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iron
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Post by iron on Jun 29, 2012 23:05:12 GMT -8
I personally don't understand this and quite honestly have a very hard time believing that its not a bit of manipulation. Call me negative, but these sort of auction results for artists at her level are a bit questionable. You are not being negative. It is as simple as that. |
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Post by dotdot on Jun 30, 2012 2:04:07 GMT -8
..from cool... to hot to cooking .. to overheated..
(a cool down is forecast).
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Post by afroken on Jun 30, 2012 2:28:04 GMT -8
Her market probably is being manipulated in some attempt to justify a huge jump in primary prices that must be imminent. But if this is true then she is being managed by some pretty stupid people as this is beginning to look like a very overheated and dangerous proposition. With every sale like this the backlash moves one step closer. There's probably a lot of early buyers (and the odd recent one too) that are licking their chops right now planning when they're going to divest their interests for maximum profit. Once the trickle turns into a steady stream I think we'll see a severe correction as that level of manipulation will be unsustainable. Interesting to see how that plays out.
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Post by ricosg11 on Jun 30, 2012 7:43:59 GMT -8
In defense of her primary sources, I have to say that I was told point blank that primary pricing would stay level for quite a while. Access may not become any better, but those rich people and institutions are still paying somewhat reasonable prices, all things considered.
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Post by parklife2 on Jun 30, 2012 8:27:26 GMT -8
THe poeple managing her have alot more experience and know alot more about the market than anyone here. And I know first hand that they are not at all happy about these pieces turning up at auction. They have very little control over the secondary market. If her gallery wanted to drive up the prices they could have easily priced her works at her recent show at twice the list prices and still presold all the work. Their main focus is her long term pricing and market.
Any manipulation being undertaken is by the secondary market. Supply cant keep up with demand. And then there's hype.
Paula Cooper and her staff have managed and nurtured the careers of some of the most successful artists of the past half century.
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Post by mose on Jun 30, 2012 9:48:28 GMT -8
They have very little control over the secondary market. Now you know that is a completely false statement. Tightening primary supply, choosing the population who can purchase at primary, exerts huge influence over the secondary market. |
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Post by harveyn on Jun 30, 2012 10:37:17 GMT -8
I agree with most points being made.
Mose you are 100% correct that they have a huge influence on the secondary market because it would be impossible not to.
Parklife I know for a fact they are very keen for pieces not to be sold on the secondary market, certainly not in the public domain.
Afroken there is almost certainly an amount of manipulation by players in both the primary and secondary domain. The question is which successful artist throughout the history of time has not had that happen several times at least during their rise to success.
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Post by volvic on Jun 30, 2012 12:27:09 GMT -8
i think paula cooper are more concerned about her current inventory (folds) getting to auction so soon. Old works can and will slip through the net and there is nothing they can do about it.
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avert
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Post by avert on Jun 30, 2012 13:20:04 GMT -8
They have very little control over the secondary market. Now you know that is a completely false statement. Tightening primary supply, choosing the population who can purchase at primary, exerts huge influence over the secondary market. having current control is possible. having control of works that sold 5-8 years ago, not possible. (i always enjoy reading the verbage that's generated after a high auction result. better than saturday sports.)  |
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Post by afroken on Jun 30, 2012 13:42:46 GMT -8
Particularly when you start your career with a certain LA based gallery that has no shame whatsoever!
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Post by afroken on Jun 30, 2012 14:33:56 GMT -8
I don't think he was calling you a liar, at least not how I read it. I think that what Mose is trying to say is that, even indirectly, the primary situation impacts the secondary market and therefore they have to take some responsibility for the pent up demand that clearly exists amongst collectors that can afford to take their chances competing with each other at auction and causing this overheating. I don't know what the solution is but the market has essentially been starved of any new work at all for nearly 3 years with all of it going to institutions and a very select few collectors. Perhaps galleries need to segment their audiences more in situations like this to strike a balance rather than focusing o one or two select audiences?
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prpr
Junior Member
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Post by prpr on Jul 1, 2012 20:40:39 GMT -8
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Post by mose on Jul 2, 2012 4:46:25 GMT -8
MOse - Tell me how her gallery can control anything that was not purchased through them i.e 95% of all the works currently on the market? Really, I'd like to know. I also do not appreciate being called a liar. You should be more careful with you words. Even in an anonymous forum. If I wanted to call you a liar, you would have seen that word. I'm straightforward on things like that. And please take your silly internet threats elsewhere. It makes you come across like a clown and i gather that you are not. Childish, really. I find it rather straight forward how tight control of supply at primary creates secondary movement through unsatiated demand, how tight access at primary causes buyers to turn to auction and pay premiums due to lack of access/buying opportunity. Harveyn and Afroken clearly understood what I was saying, I'm a bit surprised it missed you. Any which way, best of luck. |
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Post by heisenburg on Jul 2, 2012 9:55:13 GMT -8
MOse - Tell me how her gallery can control anything that was not purchased through them i.e 95% of all the works currently on the market? Really, I'd like to know. I also do not appreciate being called a liar. You should be more careful with you words. Even in an anonymous forum. If I wanted to call you a liar, you would have seen that word. I'm straightforward on things like that. And please take your silly internet threats elsewhere. It makes you come across like a clown and i gather that you are not. Childish, really. I find it rather straight forward how tight control of supply at primary creates secondary movement through unsatiated demand, how tight access at primary causes buyers to turn to auction and pay premiums due to lack of access/buying opportunity. Harveyn and Afroken clearly understood what I was saying, I'm a bit surprised it missed you. Any which way, best of luck. It is a shame that both of you have fallen out over this. Both of you have made valuable contributions not only to this thread but to art in general that I have enjoyed reading. It would be a waste if this issue could not be sorted out amicably. |
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Post by mose on Aug 7, 2012 4:45:37 GMT -8
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Post by sleepboy on Aug 20, 2012 17:45:10 GMT -8
Floor install for the "Field Conditions" group show at SFMOMA ( showthread).  |
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Post by jsauer on Aug 23, 2012 10:35:23 GMT -8
Does anyone know of similar artists as Tauba that are not as well-known or popular? The prices are a bit out of my price range.
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Post by mose on Aug 23, 2012 15:16:35 GMT -8
Does anyone know of similar artists as Tauba that are not as well-known or popular? The prices are a bit out of my price range. It depends on what types of Auerbach's work you fancy. If you give an example of what you find interesting, a list could probably be worked up of artists doing similar work. |
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Post by astrogirl on Aug 23, 2012 20:41:37 GMT -8
Does anyone know of similar artists as Tauba that are not as well-known or popular? The prices are a bit out of my price range. weirdly enough I was looking at John Houck's work today thinking it reminded me alot of Tauba's. (Not painted, but actually creased, each unique.) www.johnhouck.com/work/id-03_JohnHouck |
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Post by shine166 on Aug 24, 2012 1:11:25 GMT -8
Does anyone know of similar artists as Tauba that are not as well-known or popular? The prices are a bit out of my price range. weirdly enough I was looking at John Houck's work today thinking it reminded me alot of Tauba's. (Not painted, but actually creased, each unique.) www.johnhouck.com/work/id-03_JohnHouckThink a few ppl on here picked some of those up earlier in the year |
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Post by mose on Aug 24, 2012 9:02:24 GMT -8
I think Houck has definitely scratched some people's Auerbach itch for that variety of work. I'd also recommend, lower in the price scale, both Pae White's works on paper/smaller works and Mariah Robertson(full disclosure, I own a smaller Robertson work).
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