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Post by arezee on Jan 6, 2011 22:55:30 GMT -8
This is a question for all the collectors here. When deciding on a purchase do you take what the picture is painted on under consideration? If you really like the painting does it matter? Would you pay more for something on linen as opposed to cotton or panel or hardboard?
Something I've been curious about lately as a painter. Thank you for your time and responses.
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Post by Weekender on Jan 6, 2011 23:13:35 GMT -8
I still prefer works on canvass for conservation purposes. However, once in a while i get something different, and just hopeful it wont deteriorate (faster) in the decades or centuries to come. By priority for me:
1. Canvas
2. Wood Board/ panel
3. Metal
4. Paper
5. Others
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Post by jefframirez on Jan 6, 2011 23:50:49 GMT -8
interesting thread!
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Post by svenman on Jan 7, 2011 2:06:55 GMT -8
yes, this is an interesting question. something i've not given too much thought to previously, but this has made me think. i don't think i would consider a piece of work at a different value if it was on either board, canvas or paper as mostly work is priced on size / the square inch - not always / entirely though. if i was considering 2 pieces from an artist of the same size and one was on paper and one was on panel / canvas, then the ability to hang it easily comes to mind - if the paper piece was not framed already then it's going to cost me more to frame it myself so that would be a consideration. i suppose though that if you are thinking in terms of archival value, then a paper piece can be much more easily protected through good quality conservation framing. i have a fair few canvas and board pieces that are completely exposed to dust and whatever other crap could happen to them. i have some pieces with paper adhered to cradled boards that are exposed. kids running around with crayons in my house can be a bit of a worry sometimes! i actually just recieved a piece yesterday that is graphite on paper wrapped over a board. apparently the paper is soaked and then stretched and stapled over the board. i'm thinking that a heat-formed perspex case may be the way to go for this one.... interesting that metal is raised as a canvas material... i've a couple of pieces on aluminium, which is a stable material, but i have seen work on rusted metal such as a barry mcgee piece that i could see deteriorating over time. even more interesting is that an artist by the name of derm (one of the agents of change collective) made a series of unprimed steel pieces last year that he expects to rust and age over time. i think that his idea was that the piece is in continuous evolution in regards to it's state. interestingly, the pieces he painted had lunar map references as the content and this is the first time i've made that direct connection to time in the context of the work. i'm going to ask him how the pieces are looking now a year on from when he made them, so thanks for the discussion!  IMG_6884 by sven / a million pieces, on Flickr |
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Post by troom on Jan 7, 2011 11:15:39 GMT -8
I know this is a little off topic, but I like seeing artwork done on non-acrhival materials, (like sevens Dern). Even though I'm into the preservation of art, I also appreciate art that might even turn back to the earth with little or no environmental impact, kind of going full circle, like it's creator. Yes I'm kind of one of these:  |
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Post by afroken on Jan 7, 2011 12:28:05 GMT -8
I think it really varies from artist to artist. Some work better on paper, others better on wood, etc. Obviously the surface of each material defines the quality of the mark made by the artist and I think can define their work as well. Besides, modern conservation and framing really narrow the gap in terms of longevity. And I agree with Svenman, I worry much more about my exposed pieces on wood or canvas than the ones on paper that are hermetically sealed in frames.
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djsp
Full Member
Posts: 134
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Post by djsp on Jan 7, 2011 13:37:50 GMT -8
I feel like a lot of the concern about archival materials in recent years is based on this idea that nothing that is not on archival material has been able to stand the test of time. Since we have a great deal of art that has survived hundreds of years, I am not sure where this concern came from.
A piece of paper in an archival frame with museum glass is not airtight. It is always susceptible to outside forces. Essentially you are only protecting from sunlight and that the materials you use are not adding to the issue.
I am not at all saying that I don't want my art created on materials that have the longest life possible, but no matter what I frame my stuff up with, I am fairly confident that all my art will be able to outlive me. Perhaps I am just a optimist though.
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Post by rhinomilk on Jan 7, 2011 14:23:42 GMT -8
i avoid cardboard... put premium on canvas
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Post by arezee on Jan 7, 2011 21:45:43 GMT -8
Thank you to all who have responded thus far. I have been spending a lot of time over the last year or so really studying the materials of the craft of painting in order to make to most stable oil paintings possible. I find it interesting that it seems canvas is still given top billing and value. Maybe there isnt a big enough sample here. Curious to see where it goes. From my research a rigid substrate would be the best choice for oil paintings durablility wise. This is what I was told from a member of a prominent art materials website...
"We've consistently recommended that oil painters to keep things simple. Paint on rigid supports or fabrics mounted on rigid supports. Use a properly prepared and applied size and ground. Make a painting with as few layers as possible -- four seems reasonable. Follow the rule of fat over lean. Use the least amount of a painting medium in the final layer, if a medium is required. A final coating on the painting is a good idea. Put a complete label on the rear of the painting, including a description of the support, the ground, the design layers, the desired surface appearance, and instructions for care, exhibition and storage."
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apm
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by apm on Jan 7, 2011 22:49:02 GMT -8
I still prefer works on canvass for conservation purposes. However, once in a while i get something different, and just hopeful it wont deteriorate (faster) in the decades or centuries to come. By priority for me: 1. Canvas 2. Wood Board/ panel Surely, for 'conservation purposes', a painting done on board/panel is alot less likely to get damaged then one done on canvas..? Not wanting to start an argumenting, just curious as to why you think otherwise..?  |
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Post by Weekender on Jan 7, 2011 22:55:45 GMT -8
I still prefer works on canvass for conservation purposes. However, once in a while i get something different, and just hopeful it wont deteriorate (faster) in the decades or centuries to come. By priority for me: 1. Canvas 2. Wood Board/ panel Surely, for 'conservation purposes', a painting done on board/panel is alot less likely to get damaged then one done on canvas..? Not wanting to start an argumenting, just curious as to why you think otherwise..? Its a personal choice, i see works in museum on wood and i see how the paint slowly chips/ cracks away/ splitting grain. Assuming i store everything in a safe environment (good stewardship), artists use appropriate media for their work and taking into account investment returns for the next generation, ill still go for my list. Cheers! |
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apm
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by apm on Jan 8, 2011 2:57:36 GMT -8
Surely, for 'conservation purposes', a painting done on board/panel is alot less likely to get damaged then one done on canvas..? Not wanting to start an argumenting, just curious as to why you think otherwise..? Its a personal choice, i see works in museum on wood and i see how the paint slowly chips/ cracks away/ splitting grain. Assuming i store everything in a safe environment (good stewardship), artists use appropriate media for their work and taking into account investment returns for the next generation, ill still go for my list. Cheers! Ahh, fair enough! Paint cracking isn't directly related to what medium it's done on, and if anything I'd say paint cracking is more likely to happen on canvas, due to it eventually loosing slack and way ahead in the future most canvases will need to be restretched etc... Not to mention, it's alot easier to accidently put a hole in a canvas then it is with wood...!  |
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Post by afroken on Jan 8, 2011 3:04:10 GMT -8
Isn't canvas more 'stable' than wood in the long-term? Wood has a tendency to react to the environment more and warp, split, etc.
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apm
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by apm on Jan 8, 2011 3:19:28 GMT -8
I honestly couldn't say... You are right about wood having the possibility to warp and the likes due to the environment, however aslong as it's kept in the right environment/conditions then it'll be fine for next couple of centuries!  |
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Post by Weekender on Jan 8, 2011 3:49:34 GMT -8
Thats why its the artist's responsibility to PRIME/TREAT very good whatever they use and use high quality medium (oil whatever) to the appropriate "material"....wood and canvas reacts to the condition they are into: humidity, heat and cold (im assuming that accidental poking into the artwork is ruled out in all cases)  this is a nice discussion: www.amien.org/forums/showthread.php?1840-Comparing-early-panel-paintings-to-canvas |
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Post by arezee on Jan 8, 2011 5:59:37 GMT -8
AMIEN has been a great source of information for me weekender. Like it was said in that thread the concern of wood splitting was a bigger problem for solid wood panels and not the newer high quality plywoods and hardboards. This has been a long running internal debate for myself. I want to make the best paintings possible and its my job to make sure they are as well crafted as possible. I think the research shows that a well braced rigid support is the sturdiest choice. But canvas has tradition, a romantic history.
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Post by Weekender on Jan 8, 2011 6:37:56 GMT -8
Cool! Keep us updated with your work! Share when finished. Cheers!
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apm
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by apm on Jan 8, 2011 9:18:13 GMT -8
AMIEN has been a great source of information for me weekender. Like it was said in that thread the concern of wood splitting was a bigger problem for solid wood panels and not the newer high quality plywoods and hardboards. This has been a long running internal debate for myself. I want to make the best paintings possible and its my job to make sure they are as well crafted as possible. I think the research shows that a well braced rigid support is the sturdiest choice. But canvas has tradition, a romantic history. Very true about old wood vs new modern hardboards, plywoods etc.. All the paintings I have done have been on hardboard, for 2 main reasons... The main reason is due to the surface/texture, I much prefer to paint on a smooth surface so if needs be, I can paint somthing completely smooth without having texture showing behind... The other reason is because I have been sourcing frames for a long long time and have a huge collection, so cutting down hardboard to fit is alot easier than trying to make a canvas to fit... However what I am tempted to try and have heard about a few people doing (including my father), is using a bedsheet and sealing that onto a piece of hardboard, it gives you the texture of a canvas which some people prefer to paint on but also the strength/solidness of painting on a panel.. |
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Post by The Gorgon on Jan 8, 2011 18:49:55 GMT -8
I know conservators suggest canvas, because it's been proven to last. But hands down, I love wood. Canvas would be my second choice, and paper third. However, I currently have 3 originals on paper and they are my absolute favorites and get the most comments. So, if I love something enough, media doesn't matter. Wood's ability to easily react to the environment is scary. I actually have 3 pieces that are in a hallway towards the bathroom we take a shower in. I always turn on the vent fan to prevent moisture in the air, but I still get scared. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't there a recent article about "The Mona Lisa", which is done on wood, about it warping? news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/04/0430_040430_monalisa.htmlInteresting subject. I hope people keep posting their opinions. |
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