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Post by richardtharbaugh on Sept 11, 2008 23:19:38 GMT -8
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Post by ally on Sept 12, 2008 17:12:32 GMT -8
gasp! beautiful!
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Post by mattlock on Sept 12, 2008 17:44:52 GMT -8
around how much do these go for these days??
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Post by lowpro on Sept 12, 2008 18:06:23 GMT -8
around how much do these go for these days?? It seems like every week for the last few months someone has been trying to sell a paper Debutante on eBay. They've been priced in the low $2k's and haven't sold. Last year, according to EB, there were 3-4 paper versions that sold for $1300-1600. Plus it's from an edition of 200, which was on the high side for Porterhouse/Ryden, so it doesn't fetch nearly as much. But it undoubtedly also has a lot to do with the fact that the ones on eBay have all been from the paper editions. For Porterhouse prints where there is a canvas counterpart, it's much harder for the paper version to sell merely because the quality on their canvas prints was that impressive. However, I take it this is the framed canvas version? I've never seen one to know what the frame looks like. But it looks like there's no glass, so it could be the canvas version. Either way, it looks stellar! Completely represents this piece in a much different - and better - light. The images on eBay auctions of the paper versions always looked so flat. This absolutely pops! Quite impressive!! And I never realized there was a "actual" print of Ecstasy of Cecila, in the sense that Artworks or Porterhouse produced an individual run of that specific print. I always thought it was only available in "print" form in the Spectaculum Carnis sets, in which each particular print in the set wasn't signed or numbered.
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Post by virtu on Sept 12, 2008 19:07:19 GMT -8
Ryden retired "The Ecstasy of Cecelia" before the edition was completed. If I remember right the edition was to be 200 but only about 50 were produced. There was only the unframed paper edition available.
Cecelia, Debutante, Jajo, and Meat Magi took about 3 to 5 years to sell out or with Cecelia retired.
Prices below may be off by $25 to $50.
Cecelia paper opened around $250 (no canvas) Debutante paper opened around $250 - $350 Jajo paper opened $225 (no canvas) Meat Magi paper opened at $225 (no canvas)
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Post by richardtharbaugh on Sept 12, 2008 19:10:22 GMT -8
I have the receipt for these both from the Mendenhall Gallery in 1998 for these both. I'm the second owner. For the prints, here's the rundown from the original sales order.
The Ecstasy of Cecelia Iris Print Unframed $300
Debutante Iris Print Unframed $325
The Debutante is actually the paper version. It's been framed without glass, in what I was told is an antique frame. A little bit of a risky move, but it looks killer. Between the two, I'm more prone to want to keep this one (Colonel Sanders and Ryden, it's tough not to love this forever.) An additional reason to that is, the original owner decided to remove the signature, number, and title in order to fit the print in this specific frame. Insane, but it's mounted to the reverse side - and has a very low number.
The original sales receipt reflects that a deposit was taken earlier, and with the low number. The original owner was an early Ryden follower.
I've considered changing the scenery up a little in my place - so I thought I'd see if anyone had interest in a trade for one or the other of these.
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Post by masao626 on Sept 12, 2008 19:19:31 GMT -8
An additional reason to that is, the original owner decided to remove the signature, number, and title in order to fit the print in this specific frame. Insane, but it's mounted to the reverse side - and has a very low number. forgive my ignorance, but does this mean that this print has been trimmed/cut to fit the frame and the signature, etc. was pasted to the back of the print/frame?
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Post by richardtharbaugh on Sept 12, 2008 19:24:00 GMT -8
Yes. The bottom inch of the print was trimmed - and has been mounted to the back of the frame. That's sadly where the signature, title, and number live now.
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Post by lowpro on Sept 12, 2008 19:38:56 GMT -8
Ryden retired "The Ecstasy of Cecelia" before the edition was completed. If I remember right the edition was to be 200 but under 50 were produced. There was only the unframed paper edition available. Cecelia, Debutante, Jajo, and Meat Magi took about 3 to 5 years to sell out or with Cecelia retired. hmm...makes sense. They seem to all be editions of 200 and appear to have been released at the same time. I'm amazed I was oblivious to the fact that Cecilia was actually published by Porterhouse. Any insight into why Cecilia was the only one discontinued, especially if they all took a very long time to sell out? It's such a great piece. The Debutante is actually the paper version. It's been framed without glass, in what I was told is an antique frame. A little bit of a risky move, but it looks killer. Between the two, I'm more prone to want to keep this one (Colonel Sanders and Ryden, it's tough not to love this forever.) An additional reason to that is, the original owner decided to remove the signature, number, and title in order to fit the print in this specific frame. Insane, but it's mounted to the reverse side - and has a very low number. Interesting. I've never heard of a paper print framed with nothing to protect it from the elements. And how do you remove a signature? Nevertheless, it looks nice.
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Post by masao626 on Sept 12, 2008 19:43:01 GMT -8
it does look nice - great frame choice - but i believe how this print has been handled will drastically affect it's sale price. an unprotected, cut print...hmmmm.
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Post by jimandtara on Sept 12, 2008 19:51:44 GMT -8
Princess Sputnik and Cecelia were both retired well short of the intended edition size of 200. I don't know what the exact numbers are but I have slightly above 50 in BOTH. and Walt - I know you have a Butcher Bunny canvas, but have you seen a Butcher Bunny paper iris giclee too? I own many Ryden editions (in a couple cases both the canvas and paper of a given piece) and I have to tell you, the paper versions are equally spectacular! Other than the lack of a white border and no need for a glazing, the canvas prints in no way are superior in color accuracy, resolution differentiation to the original, etc. IMO. Ryden's giclee are beautiful period... jIm ps - the Debutante canvas edition is framed up tight with about a 2 1/2" inch gold rounded frame (not nearly as ornate as say the Butcher Bunny). Its beautiful! I also want to add, as a passionate collector of Ryden editions - I can't believe someone framed a paper giclee without glazing! and someone chopped it to boot?!
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Post by virtu on Sept 13, 2008 6:36:31 GMT -8
I have the receipt for these both from the Mendenhall Gallery in 1998 for these both. I'm the second owner. For the prints, here's the rundown from the original sales order. The Ecstasy of Cecelia Iris Print Unframed $300 Debutante Iris Print Unframed $325 The Debutante is actually the paper version. It's been framed without glass, in what I was told is an antique frame. A little bit of a risky move, but it looks killer. Between the two, I'm more prone to want to keep this one (Colonel Sanders and Ryden, it's tough not to love this forever.) An additional reason to that is, the original owner decided to remove the signature, number, and title in order to fit the print in this specific frame. Insane, but it's mounted to the reverse side - and has a very low number. The original sales receipt reflects that a deposit was taken earlier, and with the low number. The original owner was an early Ryden follower. I've considered changing the scenery up a little in my place - so I thought I'd see if anyone had interest in a trade for one or the other of these. I am not trying to be mean or upset you but the Mendenhall Gallery should never have sold a piece trimmed since it is pretty much worthless if cut or alerted. (we never would) It would be considered damaged by a seasoned collector or any appraiser.
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Post by masao626 on Sept 13, 2008 9:46:24 GMT -8
it seems that it wasn't the gallery which trimmed the piece down but the first owner who then sold it to richard.
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Post by virtu on Sept 13, 2008 10:38:25 GMT -8
Pretty sure Ryden was not happy with the print colors/quality of Cecelia & Sputnik, so after trying for a few years retired the editions. If they had been available i am sure they would have sold out quickly. This might mean a Ecstasy of Cecelia canvas edition might pop up some day like the Sputnik did? (who knows)
Debutante, Christina, Jajo, Meat Magi and Pele & Exotica were the slow sellers. Snow White even took about 2 years to sell out at an $800 opening price? Back in the day I had 10+ Ryden Ltd's framed in house at any one time. How quickly time flies...
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Post by richardtharbaugh on Sept 13, 2008 10:44:55 GMT -8
Correct. I'm pretty sure that the Mendenhall folks would never do that, and the first owner of the print let me know that the frame shop tried to talk him out of it a couple times, before finally slicing. it seems that it wasn't the gallery which trimmed the piece down but the first owner who then sold it to richard.
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Post by virtu on Sept 13, 2008 10:55:49 GMT -8
it seems that it wasn't the gallery which trimmed the piece down but the first owner who then sold it to richard. I might be confused but it sounds like Mendenhall purchased the piece from a collector framed? I think since it was stated the art was in an "antique frame" that they were selling a $325 antique frame not the trimmed/cut art print. But since it was purchased for $325 framed it was worth it just to enjoy the image. It does look beautiful. Ever notice you never see "Snow White" available?
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rivet
Junior Member
Posts: 96
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Post by rivet on Sept 13, 2008 12:34:40 GMT -8
An additional reason to that is, the original owner decided to remove the signature, number, and title in order to fit the print in this specific frame. Insane, but it's mounted to the reverse side - and has a very low number. Wow-that is insane! I agree that this will most likely have an effect on what you will be able to sell this piece for. Best of luck.
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Post by richardtharbaugh on Sept 13, 2008 14:04:11 GMT -8
Insane, I know... I've appreciated the image for some time, and I've decided to just hang onto The Debutante. Just to clear it up, Mendenhall sold the original print, but didn't slice the bottom off and didn't frame it. $325 was the original release price from the gallery, unframed. That said, Cecelia is up for grabs.
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Post by virtu on Sept 13, 2008 14:42:16 GMT -8
Seems I am a little on the slow side. I think I get it now, you never purchased from Mendenhall directly but have the receipt from the original print owner that purchased it at Mendenhall then framed it himself.
Did not think a gallery like Mendenhall would resell a trimmed/cut piece. Thanks
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Post by jimandtara on Sept 13, 2008 16:12:26 GMT -8
Pretty sure Ryden was not happy with the print colors/quality of Cecelia & Sputnik, so after trying for a few years retired the editions. Actually Tom, some input if I may on this one. I actually bought the last or second to last Sputnik back in the day - the orginal LE paper Sputnik's retirement and the subsequent Sputnik on canvas were actually indirect results of the copyright lawsuit regarding St. Barbie. As you know, both of these prints were being ran by Art Works Fine Art Publishing (he also printed the Spectaculum Carnis portfolios for Mark). Anyway, as it was explained to me - St. Barbie was stopped immediately as a result of the suit (somewhere in the high 20's or 30's I think) - Mark decided shortly after that to take control of his publishing entirely and formed Porterhouse, retired Princess, his last tie with Art Works (by then Princess had sold somewhere in mid 50's) - so she was actually a casualty of all this. Also - I have seen a few paper Sputniks throughout the years at varying numbers. Some are signed, numbered AND titled UNDER the image area in the white, some are just signed and numbered - some are signed, numbered and titled IN the image area, some are just signed numbered IN the image area. The quality was always there from what I have seen, the execution and convention for signage was all over the place. Throw that almost experimental treatment of Sputnik and St Barbie with the lawsuit etc, I think he just threw in the towel. So, I'm sure the later canvas version was a way to finish up some old unfinished business and do it with STYLE! Not to mention, that piece was always begging for an oval framing! jIm
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Post by virtu on Sept 13, 2008 17:27:06 GMT -8
Pretty sure Ryden was not happy with the print colors/quality of Cecelia & Sputnik, so after trying for a few years retired the editions. Actually Tom, some input if I may on this one. I actually bought the last or second to last Sputnik back in the day - the orginal LE paper Sputnik's retirement and the subsequent Sputnik on canvas were actually indirect results of the copyright lawsuit regarding St. Barbie. As you know, both of these prints were being ran by Art Works Fine Art Publishing (he also printed the Spectaculum Carnis portfolios for Mark). Anyway, as it was explained to me - St. Barbie was stopped immediately as a result of the suit (somewhere in the high 20's or 30's I think) - Mark decided shortly after that to take control of his publishing entirely and formed Porterhouse, retired Princess, his last tie with Art Works (by then Princess had sold somewhere in mid 50's) - so she was actually a casualty of all this. Also - I have seen a few paper Sputniks throughout the years at varying numbers. Some are signed, numbered AND titled UNDER the image area in the white, some are just signed and numbered - some are signed, numbered and titled IN the image area, some are just signed numbered IN the image area. The quality was always there from what I have seen, the execution and convention for signage was all over the place. Throw that almost experimental treatment of Sputnik and St Barbie with the lawsuit etc, I think he just threw in the towel. So, I'm sure the later canvas version was a way to finish up some old unfinished business and do it with STYLE! Not to mention, that piece was always begging for an oval framing! jIm The original Sputnik painting had a killer oval frame that was beautiful and I think Mark always wanted to recreate the same feeling for the Ltd thus the deluxe framed canvas edition. I remember the Barbie lawsuit stopping St Barbie production and Mark asking me not to promote the Transcending Trademarks aka Dead Character Trademarks as well due to copyright infringement. Mark signed, numbered and then hand titled each of these with either Transcending Trademarks or Dead Character Trademarks. Never asked why. Blue at Artworks printed all of the early Ryden editions, I think Snow White was the last piece Mark did with Artworks. Blue printed part of the edition before Mark left and then Mark printed the remaining Snow White edition on his own. "Little Star" was Mark's 1st release on his own if I remember right? Even after leaving Artworks we continued to request both Cecelia & Sputnik Ltd's from Mark/Porterhouse & told to wait. It was a few years later we were told they would retire the editions. I was more than a little surprised to see the deluxe framed Sputnik show up years later.
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Post by jimandtara on Sept 13, 2008 18:01:03 GMT -8
I remember the Barbie lawsuit stopping St Barbie production and Mark asking me not to promote the Transcending Trademarks aka Dead Character Trademarks as well due to copyright infringement. Mark signed, numbered and then hand titled each of these with either Transcending Trademarks or Dead Character Trademarks. Never asked why. Blue at Artworks printed all of the early Ryden editions, I think Snow White was the last piece Mark did with Artworks. Blue printed part of the edition before Mark left and then Mark printed the remaining Snow White edition on his own. "Little Star" was Mark's 1st release on his own if I remember right? Even after leaving Artworks we continued to request both Cecelia & Sputnik Ltd's from Mark/Porterhouse & told to wait. It was a few years later we were told they would retire the editions. I was more than a little surprised to see the deluxe framed Sputnik show up years later. Hey Tom - Thanks for filling in those blanks - I always wondered why he (Blue) had access to some of those later mentioned editions after "Porterhouse" started. So the only difference with some of the later Meat Show runs were the certs were from "Porterhouse" basically - my paper Sputnik has the Art Works cert. I will say, for those that love that image and can't afford the canvas version (when it rears its head), my paper version of Princess Sputnik is absolutely beautiful! I still hang that one too - thats THE image that drew me into collecting art and to this day is still my favorite! In leui of an oval framing given the square paper shape, I framed it up tight with a black matt, black frame so its ALL about the image with limited white space. You mentioned above in an earlier post about, wondering why we've never seen Snow White come up (and you're right btw, that one was $800 opening). Is there more of a story to that too? I believe I have never seen one on eBay - the last one I saw sell was thru Debi - she had an AP that came with an entire collection she bought last summer. Jim
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Post by masao626 on Sept 13, 2008 18:05:26 GMT -8
i'm rivetted by this conversation - any chance of pictures of your ryden pieces jim and tom? maybe? pretty please?
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Post by virtu on Sept 13, 2008 22:04:13 GMT -8
I remember the Barbie lawsuit stopping St Barbie production and Mark asking me not to promote the Transcending Trademarks aka Dead Character Trademarks as well due to copyright infringement. Mark signed, numbered and then hand titled each of these with either Transcending Trademarks or Dead Character Trademarks. Never asked why. Blue at Artworks printed all of the early Ryden editions, I think Snow White was the last piece Mark did with Artworks. Blue printed part of the edition before Mark left and then Mark printed the remaining Snow White edition on his own. "Little Star" was Mark's 1st release on his own if I remember right? Even after leaving Artworks we continued to request both Cecelia & Sputnik Ltd's from Mark/Porterhouse & told to wait. It was a few years later we were told they would retire the editions. I was more than a little surprised to see the deluxe framed Sputnik show up years later. Hey Tom - Thanks for filling in those blanks - I always wondered why he (Blue) had access to some of those later mentioned editions after "Porterhouse" started. So the only difference with some of the later Meat Show runs were the certs were from "Porterhouse" basically - my paper Sputnik has the Art Works cert. I will say, for those that love that image and can't afford the canvas version (when it rears its head), my paper version of Princess Sputnik is absolutely beautiful! I still hang that one too - thats THE image that drew me into collecting art and to this day is still my favorite! In leui of an oval framing given the square paper shape, I framed it up tight with a black matt, black frame so its ALL about the image with limited white space. You mentioned above in an earlier post about, wondering why we've never seen Snow White come up (and you're right btw, that one was $800 opening). Is there more of a story to that too? I believe I have never seen one on eBay - the last one I saw sell was thru Debi - she had an AP that came with an entire collection she bought last summer. Jim Debi's mom was a big dealer in Pop Artist like Warhol, Haring and Rock Concert Venue posters back in the day & we all loved her. (80's thru 90's) I thought all of the Ryden prints Artworks/Blue produced were great but Mark did upgrade and make his "Snow White" prints richer in color. The edition was only 50 and real collectors bought Ryden back then not to resell but to enjoy forever so they do not show up on the secondary often. I began as a framer in High School. You can have a big oval mat cut for your paper Sputnik (we did) & then find/order an oval frame to fit. It's allot of matt but looks cool oval. I also found a small old iron gate/piece with an oval opening at a salvage yard and framed a Sputnik print in it. (Soooo Sweet)
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Post by jimandtara on Sept 13, 2008 22:28:14 GMT -8
i'm rivetted by this conversation - any chance of pictures of your ryden pieces jim and tom? maybe? pretty please? Only for you Charity! Heres the paper version of Princess... (Joe Sorrens BUMP is in that spot now) jIm
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