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Post by sleepboy on Jan 6, 2010 11:52:49 GMT -8
By the way, did anyone see that "Radiant Child" documentary screening while they were at Art Basel?
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Post by sleepboy on Feb 26, 2010 9:45:00 GMT -8
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Post by sleepboy on Aug 19, 2010 22:33:33 GMT -8
Jean-Michel Basquiat: The Radiant Child @ Landmark Nuart
11272 Santa Monica Blvd., West Los Angeles, CA 90025
Director Tamra Davis and Jeffrey Deitch (MoCA) after 7:30pm screening Fri. 8/20
Director Tamra Davis and Artist Kenny Scharf after 7:30pm screening Sat. 8/21
Director Tamra Davis and Editor/Producer Alexis Spraic after 2:50pm screening Sun. 8/22
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Post by jemappellekat on Aug 23, 2010 15:42:08 GMT -8
Has anyone seen it?
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Post by rsingletary on Sept 23, 2010 0:58:07 GMT -8
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Post by rsingletary on Sept 23, 2010 11:54:02 GMT -8
MESSAGE FOR: sleepboy
___________________
I hate to be critical of you because I love most of your work here and appreciate all the suggestions you've given me. You have been VERY helpful. Yet, you moved my thread titled:
JEAN MICHEL BASQUIAT__one of the greatest !! from CONTEMPORARY ART to your thread
which I feel is a conflict of interest. I sincerely request you move it back. BASQUIAT would
turn in his grave to be in the section Urban/Street Art ____because we all know he is one of the greatest artists the USA has ever produced !! If he continued to do street art all his life (like he started out) I could see your point. He's just too important of an artist to place in this section........................and yes I do love street art and appreciate all the artists involved. I'm
sure you wouldn't put Van Gogh in the Urban/Street Art section !!
I appreciate your consideration on this matter (and this will most likely be the only time I
make this kind of request),___Robert Singletary (age 64)
__________________________________________________
Signed: Robert Singletary__Thursday Sept. 23, 2010__3:53 P.M.
(eastern standard time) USA
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Post by sleepboy on Sept 23, 2010 12:18:56 GMT -8
There is no conflict of interest. This is not a competition. There is only one thread for each artist on this forum. It just so happens there already is a thread for Basquiat that was created earlier this year. I happen to be the one who started it but it doesn't matter to me who creates threads here, whether it is me or anyone else. What does him being the "greatest artists ever produced" (in your opinion) have to do with him being in the Urban/Street Art section? What does any artist being "important" have to do with them being placed in a particular section? And comparing Van Gogh to Basquiat is a stretch, don't you think? Virtually all street artists eventually have gallery shows. Do we move them all out of this section when that happens? I don't know the answer to that question. I suppose if they end of selling for millions, then we consider moving them? Not sure. But, it's much more constructive to message me or start a discussion on that topic ( here) rather than start multiple threads on artists all over the forum. |
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Post by rsingletary on Sept 23, 2010 14:18:20 GMT -8
MESSAGE FOR: sleepboy
___________________
So, if it doesn't matter that much to you just move mine back to CONTEMPORARY ART
and move your thread into mine. You're correct...this is NOT a competition so I know you won't turn down my modest request. Yes, I do compare Basquiat to Van Gogh and they come out equal in my book (even if they are very different).
Thanks in advance for joining my thread on the CONTEMPORARY ART section, Bob (age 64)
( I know you are fair-minded and appreciate all the members who join this site).
P.S. If you don't believe me make a short phone call to these two gallery owners. Ask them if they're happy you placed BASQUIAT in
the Urban/Street Art section ?? Here's the info:
Larry Gagosian (Gagosian Gallery, N.Y.)__phone at the 980 Madison Ave. location: 1-212-744-2313
and
Tony Shafrazi (Tony Shafrazi Gallery, N.Y.)__phone at the 544 West 26th Street location: 1-212-274-9300.
__________________________________________________
Signed: Robert Singletary__Thursday Sept. 23, 2010__6:18 P.M.
(eastern standard time) USA
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Post by astrogirl on Sept 23, 2010 15:22:50 GMT -8
I like Basquiat in the urban art category - it's where he started, it's where he culled his inspiration for his work and I think that most of us in this genre would like to think of him as "one of us" - before he became the darling of the uber art / money scene.
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Post by sleepboy on Sept 23, 2010 16:08:26 GMT -8
MESSAGE FOR: sleepboy ___________________ So, if it doesn't matter that much to you just move mine back to CONTEMPORARY ART and move your thread into mine. You're correct...this is NOT a competition so I know you won't turn down my modest request. Yes, I do compare Basquiat to Van Gogh and they come out equal in my book (even if they are very different). Thanks in advance for joining my thread on the CONTEMPORARY ART section, Bob (age 64) ( I know you are fair-minded and appreciate all the members who join this site). P.S. If you don't believe me make a short phone call to these two gallery owners. Ask them if they're happy you placed BASQUIAT in the Urban/Street Art section ?? Here's the info: Larry Gagosian (Gagosian Gallery, N.Y.)__phone at the 980 Madison Ave. location: 1-212-744-2313 and Tony Shafrazi (Tony Shafrazi Gallery, N.Y.)__phone at the 544 West 26th Street location: 1-212-274-9300. __________________________________________________ Signed: Robert Singletary__Thursday Sept. 23, 2010__6:18 P.M. (eastern standard time) USA You seem to have misunderstood some of my points in the previous post. 1) When I said it didn't matter - I was clearly referring to the fact that it doesn't matter WHO creates discussion threads here, however, it DOES matter that an artist is placed in the correct category (but it seems there sometimes isn't a clear "correct" category). 2) When I was referring to comparisons between Van Gogh and Basquiat being a stretch, I was not referring to their importance, ranking, status in the art world. I was referring to that fact that their work is so different (which you yourself agree on) that it would be a stretch to put their works in the same category (which is the subject we are discussing). 3) I would like to think I'm "fair-minded and appreciate all the members who join this site", but that doesn't mean that I would agree with your argument. Just like I don't expect you to agree with me just because you are nice. 4) Although I respect Gagosian and Shafrazi, I don't really let them influence how I view artists. Just because they say an apple is an orange doesn't mean I will agree. It's a gray area for sure. For example, do we move Robert Williams from the Low Brow section to Contemporary just because Shafrazi shows him. Do we move Faile from the Street Art section to Contemporary just because Gagosian shows them. Do we move Shepard Fairey from the Street Art section to Contemporary just because Deitch showed him? I'm not saying there is a concrete answer because that can affect how I view certain artists but not so for original street artists for some reason. Call me a romantic, but if an artist made their name on the street, then that's where the section I put them in. Of course there are those like Andrew Hem, Jeff Soto, Sam Flores etc who have been street artists in the past, but made have not made that a focus of their career so aren't put into the street art section. For you to say Basquiat would turn over in his grave if he knew he was in the Street Art section makes me very sad. Do you know his background when he was young? Did he change so much at the age of 27 that he would no longer remember his roots and became a so called "sell out?" I'm not old enough to know the answer to that question but I would guess NO! Most street artists today wear that term as a badge of honor, why would Basquiat be any different? Why do you imply that being in the Street Art / Urban section is undesirable? In the end, I would only move an artist only if there is a strong indication to. I'm not sure there is. If you are handy with google, you will see that he is referred to as a street artist countless times - THAT is not a stretch. However, as you do not seem to agree on, I believe this is a gray area so am open to having my mind changed. At this point, what you have said to me has not. |
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Post by commandax on Sept 23, 2010 16:11:28 GMT -8
Basquiat and Haring were among the founding fathers of street art as we know it today, and from the perspective of the vast majority of those who frequent this forum, their fascination with and participation in street culture is what makes them most interesting. Throughout their lives, they both drew from the energy of the streets and deeply identified with the renegade ethic of graffiti.
This forum is geared toward the point of view from which we forum members — most of us younger and immersed in urban popular culture — are viewing the world of art. The vast majority of us find Haring and Basquiat's work to be exciting and relevant because of their association with and advocacy of street art. Although their "indoor" work eventually became incalculably valuable in the eyes of the "fine art" world, they never lost the raw, immediate aesthetics they practiced on the streets in their youth.
Your consternation at the idea of the "greatest" of artists being categorized as an urban artist is an artifact of your generational perspective. We do not consider street art to be a lower form of art, and I think you will find that the new director of MOCA, Jeffrey Deitch, would agree... (as long as we're name-dropping).
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Post by rsingletary on Sept 23, 2010 16:47:00 GMT -8
After reading the comments from sleepboy and commandax I'm seeing this as being more of a gray area than I originally thought. Thus, we agree to disagree !! I didn't realize it would be such a big deal for the administrator to combine his thread with another member's thread.
Here's the quote from sleepboy reply #9:
This is your statement:__" Call me a romantic, but if an artist made their name on the street,
then that's the section I put them in. Of course there
are those like Andrew Hem, Jeff Soto, Sam Flores etc.
who have been street artists in the past, but may not
have made that a focus of their career. So, they aren't
put into the Urban/Street Art section. "
My reply: This is my exact point__BASQUIAT may have been a street artist for a short time in his early career but did NOT make that a focus of his career. Artists who sell their paintings for thousands of dollars at major N.Y. galleries for most of their careers are not considered Urban/Street Artists (not to mention the millions of dollars paid at auction these days for prime BASQUIAT paintings). Thus, I actually feel I won this debate.
Seems to be a lot easier to snatch another person's thread and add it to his own.
Oh well, such is life in the fast lane.........so this issue is resolved in my book folks.
In the long run, I thought we all had a good discussion regarding this topic. THANKS !!
__________________________________________________
Signed: Robert Singletary__Thursday Sept.23, 2010__8:46 P.M.
(eastern standard time) USA
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Post by virtu on Sept 23, 2010 19:36:11 GMT -8
Iv always considered Jean-Michel Basquiat a graffiti artist plain & simple.
Seems more like high brow galleries thought calling Basquiat a Graffiti Artist was to low brow so they relabeled him a Neo-expressionist to suit their clientele.
And for you younger, prettier members please know Age Discrimination comments are not nice, bringing up someones age in any way as a negative is very disrespectful no matter how cleverly you try to word it.
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Post by commandax on Sept 23, 2010 20:36:54 GMT -8
And for you younger, prettier members please know Age Discrimination comments are not nice, bringing up someones age in any way as a negative is very disrespectful no matter how cleverly you try to word it. Since Robert Singletary includes his age (64) in the text of every single post he makes, it seems to me that he wants us to know that he's older and wiser, and he's condescending to educate us about what he thinks is good art. I don't know too many 64-year-olds who have an unbiased outlook on graffiti. I think that's a perfectly fair remark, and I'll stand by that one. And by the way, mentioning that someone's age might affect their outlook on the world is not discrimination. It's conversation. I grew up in the age of punk, so perhaps my view of what's "disrespectful" is colored by my own generational perspective, but we're not holding a tea party here, Miss Manners. |
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Post by sleepboy on Sept 23, 2010 20:47:17 GMT -8
After reading the comments from sleepboy and commandax I'm seeing this as being more of a gray area than I originally thought. Thus, we agree to disagree !! I didn't realize it would be such a big deal for the administrator to combine his thread with another member's thread. Here's the quote from sleepboy reply #9: This is your statement:__" Call me a romantic, but if an artist made their name on the street, then that's the section I put them in. Of course there are those like Andrew Hem, Jeff Soto, Sam Flores etc. who have been street artists in the past, but may not have made that a focus of their career. So, they aren't put into the Urban/Street Art section. " My reply: This is my exact point__BASQUIAT may have been a street artist for a short time in his early career but did NOT make that a focus of his career. Artists who sell their paintings for thousands of dollars at major N.Y. galleries for most of their careers are not considered Urban/Street Artists (not to mention the millions of dollars paid at auction these days for prime BASQUIAT paintings). Thus, I actually feel I won this debate. Seems to be a lot easier to snatch another person's thread and add it to his own. Oh well, such is life in the fast lane.........so this issue is resolved in my book folks. In the long run, I thought we all had a good discussion regarding this topic. THANKS !! __________________________________________________ Signed: Robert Singletary__Thursday Sept.23, 2010__8:46 P.M. (eastern standard time) USA Let me rephrase that. I don't think Andrew Hem, Jeff Soto are street artists by any stretch of the imagination, maybe Sam Flores. What I meant to say was they did graffiti before or painted stuff on walls, but I don't think unless people are very familiar with them will even know that. Basquiat on the other hand was well known as a street artist, even after he started showing in galleries. Does that fact that Basquiat sells for millions erase history? Does that mean he never did the things he did? Again, just because Banksy sells his pieces for millions, is he suddenly not a street artist? Plus, if you read carefully, my point of bringing up those other artists was to illustrate why they are not in the street art / urban section as opposed to Basquiat. That group of artists is different than Basquiat is what I am saying. They are definitely not the same as your are saying. As for trying measure out how much of a percentage of their career was based on the streets vs. gallery, I don't have enough information to comment on that. All I know is to me Basquiat is known as a street artist - plain and simple. I don't know what more I can say. Anyways, I think this made for a very interesting discussion, so I thank you for that. However, I still must point out that characterizing my actions as having any other reason other than the fact that we do not allow duplicate threads on this forum would be wrong. I did not "snatch" your thread and add it to my own for selfish reasons. In fact, it would have been easier just to delete your thread but I saw that you put some work into it so moved it for you. I have had my threads moved before and you are not the first one or will be the last one to have their threads moved or deleted because they are duplicates. If you started a Basquiat thread last year and then I started another one, the same thing would have happened to me. |
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Post by rsingletary on Sept 23, 2010 21:15:27 GMT -8
MESSAGE FOR: sleepboy
__________________
Maybe what I'm really saying is this thread (by you) should have been placed in the CONTEMPORARY ART section. In fact, it's ok by me if you transfer the whole thing over there.
I'm not concerned with the issue of who started what first....I just strongly feel this thread is in the wrong section.
BASQUIAT paintings at auction:
" UNTITLED " acrylic sold on May 15, 2007 for $ 14,600,000.
" UNTITLED (boxer) " acrylic sold on Nov. 12, 2008 for $ 13,522,500.
Can you name another Urban/Street Artist who has sold for those prices ?
Now do you see the point I'm making ? From my view I feel you made a
big mistake that needs to be corrected. Thanks for taking the time to seriously
think about this issue. Yes, it still disturbs me a bit but I'll get over it I'm sure.
________________________________________________
Signed: Robert Singletary__Friday Sept. 24, 2010__1:15 A.M.
(eastern standard time) USA
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Post by sleepboy on Sept 23, 2010 21:20:10 GMT -8
MESSAGE FOR: sleepboy __________________ Maybe what I'm really saying is this thread (by you) should have been placed in the CONTEMPORARY ART section. In fact, it's ok by me if you transfer the whole thing over there. I'm not concerned with the issue of who started what first....I just strongly feel this thread is in the wrong section. BASQUIAT paintings at auction: " UNTITLED " acrylic sold on May 15, 2007 for $ 14,600,000. " UNTITLED (boxer) " acrylic sold on Nov. 12, 2008 for $ 13,522,500. Can you name another Urban/Street Artist who has sold for those prices ? Now do you see the point I'm making ? From my view I feel you made a big mistake that needs to be corrected. Thanks for taking the time to seriously think about this issue. Yes, it still disturbs a bit but I'll get over it I'm sure. ________________________________________________ Signed: Robert Singletary__Friday Sept. 24, 2010__1:15 A.M. (eastern standard time) USA No, thanks for explaining. I think we have a fundamental difference in opinion. You believe that an artist who sells for prices like the ones you have listed should be placed in the contemporary art section. I can kind of see your point as some other artists in that section are there because of the price they command or who they show with. My point is street artists are a special breed of artists that we have designated a location for on our forum regardless of price point. There is no derogatory meanings behind placing them there, it is purely for a functional purpose. The way I look at it is very basic - Are they street artists? If so, is that what they are primarily known for? If the answers are yes, they go in that section. It's just how the forum is structured. Again, I can see why you would have a problem with that. But, it is mostly because you feel that the label Street / Urban Art is not a desirable thing. I'm telling you that most people here don't feel that way from what I can tell. It is purely a category or type of art, no negative connotations associated with it. In fact, it's kinda cool. |
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Post by rsingletary on Sept 23, 2010 22:06:34 GMT -8
MESSAGE FOR: sleepboy
___________________
Go back to page one and read Reply #11 by me and you'll see that YOU made the best case for me being correct. Read it 3 times if needed until you understand what you were really saying. Then read my reply carefully because I think the issue was resolved in my favor.
Yet, after reading those statements from both of us you still don't get it....what can I do ??
(YOU JUST DON'T GET IT !!!).
Sorry you lost this excellent debate....but you did with flying colors.
Also, thanks for keeping your sense of humor even if you're not very flexible (tee hee).
________________________________________________
Signed: Robert Singletary__Friday Sept. 24, 2010__2:06 A.M.
(eastern standard time) USA
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Post by voleboy on Sept 24, 2010 3:57:51 GMT -8
MESSAGE FOR: sleepboy ___________________ Go back to page one and read Reply #11 by me and you'll see that YOU made the best case for me being correct. Read it 3 times if needed until you understand what you were really saying. Then read my reply carefully because I think the issue was resolved in my favor. Yet, after reading those statements from both of us you still don't get it....what can I do ?? (YOU JUST DON'T GET IT !!!). Sorry you lost this excellent debate....but you did with flying colors. Also, thanks for keeping your sense of humor even if you're not very flexible (tee hee). ________________________________________________ Signed: Robert Singletary__Friday Sept. 24, 2010__2:06 A.M. (eastern standard time) USA I don't know whether you mean to, but it sounds like you are really antagonising him. It's a thread, in a category you don't agree with. The fact that it's here should please you irrespective of where it lives. This is one of the most polite, respectful forums I have used and the fact that Sleepboy has been so gracious in his responses is in his favour I think. |
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Post by rsingletary on Sept 24, 2010 6:58:30 GMT -8
MESSAGE FOR: voleboy
__________________
No, I'm not trying to antagonize sleepboy (even he said this issue is a gray area subject to debate). You're correct....this thread is in a section I don't agree with but I'm very happy BASQUIAT causes passions to flare. He is that important and deserves the highest respect.
sleepboy is not only gracious but he's willing to listen and consider a member's concern.
I wish he could have been convinced to do the correct thing. I told him I'd be pleased if he decided to move this entire thread over to the CONTEMPORARY ART section under his name
(afterall, he started it before I started my thread on Basquiat__so, it's only fair the thread remains in his name). Yet, this agreeable suggestion didn't do the trick. So, we ended this entire issue by agreeing to disagree. What else can we do ??
P.S.
Here's one thing I'd like to clear up:___I don't think the label Urban/Street Art is a put-down in any way because I love "Street Art" and find it very stimulating. Like sleepboy said himself some artists started out as street artists but didn't focus their entire career on it. So, they shouldn't be in the section labeled Urban/Street Art. I still feel sleepboy answered this debate with the strongest case to move this thread over to the CONTEMPORARY ART section. He's absolutely correct in thinking BASQUIAT had a very short career as a street artist.....then moved on to greater achievements for the major part of his career.
voleboy, THANKS for showing your interest in this " gray area " issue and giving us your input.
_________________________________________________
Signed: Robert Singletary__Friday Sept. 24, 2010__10:58 A.M.
(eastern standard time) USA
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Post by voleboy on Sept 24, 2010 9:23:45 GMT -8
OK, fair enough, the tone of your post(s) came across maybe more annoyed than you are.
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Post by rsingletary on Sept 24, 2010 11:24:28 GMT -8
FINALLY, TIME TO MOVE ON !!
_____________________
This link takes you to:
" Sam Keller on Jean-Michel Basquiat at Foundation Beyeler "
Duration: 8 min. 1 second
Added to YouTube on July 22, 2010 by henrichy0205yt
Foundation Beyeler is located near Basel, Switzerland (at Riehen).
NOTE: After you arrive, be sure to click Full Screen button at bottom right corner of screen.
FULL SCREEN is very impressive for this viewing !!
When full-screen video stops press escape key (located at far
upper-left corner on your keyboard).
Lots of close-up and full-image shots of his paintings....so, this video is a real treat.
I really enjoyed watching it and hope ya'll do too.
________________________________________________
Signed: Robert Singletary__Friday Sept. 24, 2010__3:24 P.M.
(eastern standard time) USA
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Post by oldfartatplay on Sept 24, 2010 11:57:19 GMT -8
FINALLY, TIME TO MOVE ON !! Signed: Robert Singletary__Friday Sept. 24, 2010__3:24 P.M. (eastern standard time) USA THANK GOD signed: oldfartatplay |
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Post by rsingletary on Sept 24, 2010 17:41:46 GMT -8
This link takes you to:
" basquiat113 "
Duration: 5 min. 49 seconds
Added to YouTube on May 7, 2009 by esyshia
NOTE: I gave this video 4 STARS because of it's simplicity. Pleasant music
as I watched painting after painting. Some I had never seen before which was
a real plus. Hope ya'll enjoy this one !!
________________________________________________
Signed: Robert Singletary__Friday Sept. 24, 2010__9:41 P.M.
(eastern standard time) USA
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Post by rsingletary on Sept 24, 2010 20:51:42 GMT -8
www.artinfo.com/artists/upcomingworks/1535/jean-michel-basquiat/This link takes you to: ARTINFO.COM___auction price database for sold works by Jean-Michel Basquiat. This site is extremely helpful to collectors who buy his art. ___________________________________________________ Signed: Robert Singletary__Saturday Sept. 25, 2010__12:51 A.M. (eastern standard time) USA
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