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Post by swabie2424 on Jun 20, 2012 20:28:40 GMT -8
I have only collected Josh's work for a year or two, but I really have become a big fan quickly... not only because of the art and its message but because Josh is my kind of artist. He goes out of his way to be open and honest with his fans. His online art show next year is perfect proof of that. He always seems to be doing a cool contest, chatting with folks and listening to suggestions. What more could a fan wish for?
I contribute somewhat regularly on his forum and it's a nice group over there (many of whom are here too). I understand people's pain who haven't nabbed an original and have waited for years... but my advice is NOT to give up and keep trying. The longer you wait and harder you try... the more satisfying it'll be one day when it is on your wall! A great art collection is as much about the journey as the pieces themselves. Every collector has their ups and downs... highs and lows... and their white whales. Don't ever stop pursuing your passion! I try and collect with as much passion as the artists show in the works they create.
In terms of the online print drops... ya win some and lose some. I've been on both ends as have all of you. If you want it that badly, be patient and you'll find a way to add it to your collection. But in the end, there are always more great pieces coming down the road. I stopped railing against flippers long ago. I have a horrible "sickness" which almost always keeps me from selling things (I get so attached!), but I don't judge people who buy and sell art. Even those who flip. While I don't condone it or "appreciate" it as a collector, it is a fact of the world we live in. No artist can stop it. And it doesn't make someone a bad person. It's the free market at work, as ruthless and heartbreaking as it is at times. But it's very liberating "getting over" it. As anything else... try your best, cross your fingers you are fast enough... and keep enjoying every new piece Mr. Keyes creates with his hands, heart and soul.
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Post by duckyhoward on Jun 20, 2012 23:02:12 GMT -8
Well said Swabie. Wholeheartedly agree with you.
I have been on EB for quite a while and Urban Art and here for a short while so looking to contribute more on here as the time passes.
I must say that Josh's work resonates with me more each day and each time I look at the pieces of his I have collected over the last couple of years, and each time I see those that I would love to add to my collection.
I would love to be fortunate enough to be offered and be able to afford one of Josh's originals, but in the meantime I will continue to act out as Captain Ahad as I hunt for my Josh Keyes “White Whale” prints; with an OG being something that may mean I could retire from this game.
But I know that I would be kidding myself if that was actually going to happen, because the search and hunt for the next 'big one' is so much fun (it is for me, and it should be for everyone) and is what draws a lot of us in, and the ongoing great work by artists like Josh will ensure that we will be back for more. I know I will. Happy hunting and searching everyone, and keep up the great work Josh.
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Post by paulypaul on Jun 21, 2012 0:13:45 GMT -8
Whilst I don't disagree with most of these comments, I've been uncomfortable for some time with Josh's relationship with Silky. As I understand it, the JK forum is one of Silky's. Josh's interaction on there, whilst admirable in many respects and I don't want to take that from him, can be seen as supportive of Silky. I don't like that, as I disapprove of many of the actions Silky has taken and I do not see him as a positive contributor to the field of art in which I am interested. I had correspondence with JK about this quite some time ago, via the JK forum, and stopped going there some time afterwards.
Now, I understand this might be see as churlish or surly and I get that. I know half of the art world and galleries we buy from are soulless fucks and Josh stands head and shoulders above them, undoubtably. But I tend to judge people by the company they keep, and this tarnishes Josh a little for me.
Just my 2p
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Post by origo on Jun 21, 2012 3:49:02 GMT -8
Being on both the former Banksy forum, Josh´s forum and here (and have been for a quite a few years now) all I can say is, that the beef some people on there are having with Silky really is a personal matter.
I do not know the guy really, haven´t had any problems and never felt that I´ve been limited in my way of communicating there, so can´t see why anyone would have a beef with Josh for having a forum run by Silky when the demand for one is clearly there.
Josh: You created a monster but unlike a lot of other artists you haven´t vanished out in the blue, you are very much around, answering questions, discussing concerns, commenting on pieces coming up for sale, I have tons of respect for that and without the forum it wouldn´t be possible in the same degree.
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Post by ricosg11 on Jun 21, 2012 4:10:14 GMT -8
Silky is DEFINITELY not one of the good guys.
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Post by origo on Jun 21, 2012 4:44:44 GMT -8
Silky is DEFINITELY not one of the good guys. I didn´t said that he was, just said it is a personal matter. I´ve been on the forums and don´t have any beef with him, and I know that a lot of people feel like that and most importantly, how could you beef with Silky be Josh´s problem? That part I don´t get. |
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Post by saL on Jun 21, 2012 5:43:21 GMT -8
I definitely agree with everything Swabie stated so nicely in his post.. thanks for that!
I seriously dont understand how can people be bitter @ Josh about not getting the chance to own his work, or scoring his prints?!... maybe there were glitches with the buyers list at some point, but Im pretty sure that it wasn't Josh that said "screw that guy, and sell this to someone else".. mistakes can happen, and with Josh's demand and the amount of interest he's getting, I think he, and his team of galleries, friends, are doing good job..
the "problem" with Josh is that he's a BIG artist but even BIGGER person that is always easy to contact and approach.. most of other artists of his range are "untouchable" for the public, so the only way you can "interact" with them is by contacting their galleries about purchasing their work... end of the story!... and people are mostly fine with that... not to mention prices of certain artists being kept more secret than Russian nuclear plans..
as for not liking Josh cause of his "company", in my opinion that is taking things too far.. we are art lovers/collectors here, and should be discussing art, not the business or private relationships that certain artist has with people we like/dislike for some reason.. if I'd go dissecting everything and everyone I have interest in, Im sure I'd end up alone, sitting in an empty house, hating my neighbors for listing to stupid music.. no matter what personal issues you might have with Silky, he is running a successful network of art related forums, and that is what counts for every artits/gallery that wanna have their own board... it's like starting a coffee place in a busy street with lots of similar things around, or in your own quiet neighborhood...
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Post by paulypaul on Jun 21, 2012 6:31:05 GMT -8
...just said it is a personal matter. Of course it's a personal matter. That's what opinions are - personal. I'm happy that you have never had a problem with Silky, Origo, but many, many people have. And, Sal, I didn't say I didn't like Josh. It would be hard for me to have a definite opinion of that either way as I have never met him. What I did say was that I was uncomfortable with his relationship with Silky and this this tarnished him a little for me. Which is quite different, don't you think? As for your final point, well, that's a little flailing and very tenuous. The art does not sit in isolation. I made this same point when the thief Lahoda was trying to market himself on here, before he stole from someone again. That's why I would not consider buying any of the artists associated with Lahoda. Also, you argue that we should be discussing art, not business, but then state that Silky's forum are the most effective route to market which is why people use them. Hmmm, you want it both ways? I would argue that they are not the only route to market and, particularly when you are as successful as Josh, irrelevant. Anyway, to return to my original point, I find it disappointing that someone who deals with the issues Josh does has such a close association with Silky. That's it, really. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2012 17:51:20 GMT -8
Hi everyone,
I thought I should set down the paintbrush and address some of the issues that have been raised. I was contacted years ago by Silky who told me about the JK forum. Being new to the world of forums (I had just purchased my first computer at the time) it sounded like a good thing, and the few members who were on and joined were pleasant, engaging and many who had me stitches with their comments. Overall it was a good place to connect and discuss the work, as well as the other artists they were interested in. It was a safe, respectable, and basically great place to hang out, talk, and share.
My interaction with Silky has been minimal, I have been in touch with him about a dozen times over the years, usually pertaining to the forum being down or not working, that's it. I do not have any special relationship with him, but do appreciate the work he has done to provide a place for collectors to gather. I have never heard any specific criticism about Silky's performance, if there is something you think I should be aware of, please feel free to send me a PM.
The forum has changed over time as most things do, and for better or worse it is what it is. I do think the decision to pursue limited editions a few years back, has changed the demographic and feel of the forum, and the feeding frenzy has rubbed many of the original die hard members in the wrong way. It is hard to please and satisfy everyone, believe me, I wish I could. I assume the same could be said for any art forum that has been around for a while. New sites pop up all of the time. In terms of collectors contacting or engaging me, I do my best to make myself available through the forums, facebook, email, or old fashion snail mail. I greatly appreciate those of you who have supported me through the forum. Your critical mind and eye are an essential part to my process and evolution of the work. Thank you.
I feel this forum is quite unique and hope it continues to be. There are some serious discussions that take place here that are not just about buying and flipping. It reminds me of some of the discussions the faculty members would have during crits. Most of the members here are incredibly passionate about art. It's the kind of atmosphere you want to keep quiet about so it does get inundated.
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Post by saL on Jun 22, 2012 3:56:54 GMT -8
And, Sal, I didn't say I didn't like Josh. It would be hard for me to have a definite opinion of that either way as I have never met him. What I did say was that I was uncomfortable with his relationship with Silky and this this tarnished him a little for me. Which is quite different, don't you think? As for your final point, well, that's a little flailing and very tenuous. The art does not sit in isolation. I made this same point when the thief Lahoda was trying to market himself on here, before he stole from someone again. That's why I would not consider buying any of the artists associated with Lahoda. Also, you argue that we should be discussing art, not business, but then state that Silky's forum are the most effective route to market which is why people use them. Hmmm, you want it both ways? I would argue that they are not the only route to market and, particularly when you are as successful as Josh, irrelevant. Anyway, to return to my original point, I find it disappointing that someone who deals with the issues Josh does has such a close association with Silky. That's it, really. I do understand your original point, but my opinion is that you should have more understanding about how things work in real life.. if you and many other people saw Silky's bad side, that doesn't give you right to judge everyone else that haven't.. and that is what youre doing by letting your opinion about him influence your opinion about Josh.. and I don't want it both ways.. I was just explaining possible reason why Josh is working with him, which he pretty much confirmed in his elaborate post... I forgot mentioning the key part which is that his blog has been up there for years, probably before you or anyone else built a bad opinion about Silky, and back when Josh wasn't as big and as successful as nowadays.. I do agree that they are not the only route to market, but back than, Im sure they were MUCH easier route.. personally, that blog was one of the big reason I became a big fan, and that was long after the "old days" that Josh mentioned in his post.. I thought I should set down the paintbrush and address some of the issues that have been raised. THIS! thanks for taking time to clear up the "issues"!.. you basically confirmed everything that I believed was the case.. and I do agree that Artchival is indeed a very special place, and Im glad people notice and cherish that... |
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Post by dotdot on Jun 22, 2012 8:37:01 GMT -8
Hello again,
Yes I admit - I'm not always a bringer of good news.
I don't do good news sometimes. Reality dictates that it must be re-interpreted and
spewed out occasionally. (think trainspotting.. then you'll get my sense of humour).
Ok.. back to the plot..
JK what would it take ? I'm not sure it's that simple. ..And as we've seen in the past few messages .. rallying round as it were.... (why ? .. was that actually necessary people?)...
everyone has a view.
A bit of clarity of where who is on what list would be a good start. Whilst I know everyone might start shouting... hang on.
At least if you know you're 325th... then you know.
Otherwise... well hey that's life...we're all kind of aware and to a larger extent resigned to the fact....
that's all I was saying... it hits everyone in different ways.
With respect to print releases ? The fun went when it became impossible to even get on the site !!
I'd change it all... make it timed .. random 30secs for 5mins in total .. over 24 hours and no release # - until post 24hours. Whilst it would make things complex.. it'd make everyone lucky. And the rush would simply vanish.
oh and yeah - one last thing.. do a show in the UK.. or travel it around Europe.. for a month. Spread that vibration... !! c'mon take that bull down the road... !! Don't leave it ... at home.
..see - not all bad news.. eh ?
..
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Post by origo on Jun 22, 2012 10:11:35 GMT -8
Sometimes the Banksy forum is full of nonsense and unfortunately it seems like the nonsense has reached Artchival as well.
Sad, one of the things I like about this place is the good spirit and atmosphere.
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Post by paulypaul on Jun 22, 2012 10:30:19 GMT -8
Sometimes the Banksy forum is full of nonsense and unfortunately it seems like the nonsense has reached Artchival as well. Sad, one of the things I like about this place is the good spirit and atmosphere. What nonsense is that, Origo? Is it people proferring an opinion that you don't agree with and others then discussing it? Because that's what happened. And that's what happens here, unlike another place where such divergent opinions are rarely allowed... I feel myself getting closer and closer to a statement in obeyance of Godwin's Law! Must resist.... |
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Post by origo on Jun 22, 2012 10:44:28 GMT -8
Subjects which has nothing to do with what this place should be about, subjects driven by egos, attitude and people who apparently feel they have the right to decide how an artists work should and shouldn´t be promoted.
I don´t know your problems with Silky and i don´t really care bout them, but I find them non relevant to this place or to this thread for that matter.
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Post by harveyn on Jun 22, 2012 10:55:00 GMT -8
PP thank you. In my blissful ignorance I was unaware of Godwins Law. I find myself suitable enlightened and better for fact that this phenomenon has actually been defined. I say debate and opinions are everything and I guess Josh is more than capable of holding his own. Sometimes the Banksy forum is full of nonsense and unfortunately it seems like the nonsense has reached Artchival as well. Sad, one of the things I like about this place is the good spirit and atmosphere. What nonsense is that, Origo? Is it people proferring an opinion that you don't agree with and others then discussing it? Because that's what happened. And that's what happens here, unlike another place where such divergent opinions are rarely allowed... I feel myself getting closer and closer to a statement in obeyance of Godwin's Law! Must resist.... |
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Post by paulypaul on Jun 22, 2012 11:00:13 GMT -8
Y'see, Origo, now I've got to call you a fucking fool in front of all these people. I didn't want to, I tried to play nice, but you brought it on yourself.
"You're a fucking fool."
Ok, that's that done. So, tell me what I should be discussing here? I'm desperate to hear...
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Post by origo on Jun 22, 2012 11:01:35 GMT -8
Y'see, Origo, now I've got to call you a fucking fool in front of all these people. I didn't want to, I tried to play nice, but you brought it on yourself. "You're a fucking fool." Ok, that's that done. So, tell me what I should be discussing here? I'm desperate to hear... Josh Keyes? |
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Post by paulypaul on Jun 22, 2012 11:07:10 GMT -8
I was. I'll tell you what, drink your milk, eat your biscuits and fuck off to bed and let the grown ups talk...
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Post by origo on Jun 22, 2012 11:08:25 GMT -8
I was. I'll tell you what, drink your milk, eat your biscuits and fuck off to bed and let the grown ups talk... Oh how that hits like a boomerang... |
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Post by sixteenounces on Jun 22, 2012 11:31:18 GMT -8
This thread is a bummer.
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Post by sleepboy on Jun 22, 2012 11:38:44 GMT -8
Okay, let's not let things get of hand here. I don't think anyone clicking on the Josh Keyes thread is really looking for this back and forth. And personal attacks of the vulgar nature won't be tolerated. Let's just get back to talking about Josh and his work.
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Post by spenie on Jun 22, 2012 11:46:00 GMT -8
Okay, let's not let things get of hand here. I don't think anyone clicking on the Josh Keyes thread is really looking for this back and forth. And personal attacks of the vulgar nature won't be tolerated. Let's just get back to talking about Josh and his work. Agreed! |
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Post by ricosg11 on Jun 22, 2012 12:25:35 GMT -8
I dont think it is a bad thing knowing the association between the owner of a forum and the person whose name is on the forum. I certainly would no longer support Ron English because of the work he has done with Chris Brown. Same goes for any company that works with Michael Vick. Josh seems to have explained it well. Perhaps if he knew of Silky's shady back door actions and gross censorship when he signed on, he may have handled the situation differently. Alas, he did not and here we are. Back to the art...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2012 20:31:49 GMT -8
If it makes any difference, the majority of my recent posts and updates have been through facebook and this forum, and my website, so if you do not wish to visit the JK forum you will still be informed. Speaking of which, I will have three small graphite drawings in the Tiny Trifecta group show. www.thecottoncandymachine.com/events/upcoming/Yes by all means lets get back to the work, I will post some updates of sketches and details of the work for my next show at Roq La Rue in November. I am showing with John Brophy who does some technically superb work. Amazing luminosity, with oil glazes and blending. Cheers PS Who may I ask is in charge of running the Artchival forum? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2012 22:33:01 GMT -8
The art and toy collection of Selim Varol, Berlin, quite and impressive collection, I am not talking about my work, check out the link and photos of the show. www.me-berlin.com/ausstellungen/ |
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