avert
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Post by avert on Mar 9, 2013 20:16:56 GMT -8
"at this point in her career...."
are you saying that in thinking that she's not established? i'd say she's earned her position. showing for 9 years, solo museum shows, chelsea gallery, etc. she's more than hype. on this forum, i can see that she's kinda hype. most of the talk on here is availability and price-centric. but that's excitement based. big numbers are exciting. in a way, i think that 53K is reasonable for that work. and i love that it's a printed matter benefit, as they can use the money. they're awesome. now i'm just rambling on and on. good for everyone involved with this auction, that's what i say.
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Post by rizza79 on Mar 10, 2013 6:27:48 GMT -8
Why is this small woven canvas worth $53k? I understand it isn't a lot of money to some people, especially in the art world. I understand that this auction is for a good cause and I agree Printed Matter is great. However, I still am hard pressed to see why this piece of art in question is worth or thought to be worth this much money. Tauba is great. Tauba is smart. She is well rounded and works in all mediums. Detail oriented, extremely disciplined, etc etc. She is only 32 years old though. That is pretty young. If she lives until 75. She still has 43 years more to make art(hypothetically speaking). Regardless of museum shows, chelsea galleries, whatever, she is still a kid. To say there is not hype or investing involved is being ignorant. I would also say its not only on Artchival that price and availability is a topic surrounding her. Taken from here: www.adamlindemann.com/inside-out-round-and-round/"You say there are still opportunities in the primary market? Sure, I know of a desirable Sterling Ruby painting bought yesterday for $200,000 that someone is trying to flip for $500,000, and a lovely Tauba Auerbach picture that was $120,000 on the primary market late last year that was recently offered to me for $450,000. Wade Guyton’s work is another prime flip today, but even these will eventually lose momentum and the spreads will inevitably narrow......" For conversations sake and my own personal interest in learning. I would love to know why she has earned or is worth this sort of money asides from a few people saying she is "the one". |
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Post by artladval on Mar 10, 2013 12:09:08 GMT -8
You guys are asking questions that don't have answers that matter one bit to what you are seeking to know. The only thing that matters in regards to the prices of her work is that there are collectors willing to pay above primary prices and there exists less supply than can meet the current demand. She will not have a fixed collector base - it can grow or it can shrink, but looking at how things are currently heading, it will probably not shrink.
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Post by rizza79 on Mar 10, 2013 17:55:13 GMT -8
You guys are asking questions that don't have answers that matter one bit to what you are seeking to know. The only thing that matters in regards to the prices of her work is that there are collectors willing to pay above primary prices and there exists less supply than can meet the current demand. She will not have a fixed collector base - it can grow or it can shrink, but looking at how things are currently heading, it will probably not shrink. as for my questions. I was more interested in hearing other collectors views/opinions on why they think Tauba has become important and so sought after. Obviously there is no clear cut answer. It is nice to converse about this sort of thing though and its nice to hear others points of view or knowledge. I'd say from the content and posters in the Tauba thread that there is certainly a few different opinions and a good bit of knowledge. As far as prices its quite obvious that it is like any other market....ie: supply and demand. I still personally believe that price should be questioned regardless of what someone else is currently willing to pay. Just because a painting is 50k or 100k or 500k now certainly doesn't mean it will always be that much money or maybe it can be way more money. I would like to think that at some point someone spending that sort of money cares about the substance of what they are buying. So even the price thing can go back to a conversation of why does her art meet all the criteria of being relevant and so sought after. |
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Post by outerborough on Mar 10, 2013 18:05:44 GMT -8
totally agree, khoi.
i don't think there's much value (no pun intended) in asking whether a certain artist or artwork deserves a certain price tag, except in relation to other artists and artworks.
as for why i think auerbach has garnered so much attention... she is able to create conceptual art that is accessible and beautiful. her work has a balance that is not often found. for me, that's the core of it. but after that, the art market does its thing and lots of people jump on board because of the hype and money.
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Post by drevil on Mar 10, 2013 18:34:06 GMT -8
Well, I admittedly don't know a ton about art or the art market.
But when an "important" artist dies I generally notice many of the same things written about in the news articles that follow. These are:
What gallery or galleries represented the artist.
Solo museum shows.
Biennials.
Group museum shows.
Museum collections (sometimes).
Those tend to be the five big things people talk about when looking back on a career. And these things tend to be a pretty good yardstick to measure the impact an artist had or has, IMO.
When I look at Tauba I don't see much of these things yet her prices are dramatically higher than artists who do have these things.
Maybe she ultimately checks all these boxes and becomes the best thing since sliced bread. But what happens if she doesn't?
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avert
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Post by avert on Mar 10, 2013 20:00:56 GMT -8
What gallery or galleries represented the artist. Solo museum shows. Biennials. Group museum shows. Museum collections (sometimes). um, correct me if i'm wrong, but tauba already has all those boxes checked. i've always been curious; when does the question of "hype" vs. "the real thing" come to an end? is there an age? is there a specific event? a dollar amount? in a way, i hope it doesn't come to soon. i do enjoy this discussion. |
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Post by hellosir on Mar 11, 2013 2:28:48 GMT -8
What gallery or galleries represented the artist. Solo museum shows. Biennials. Group museum shows. Museum collections (sometimes). um, correct me if i'm wrong, but tauba already has all those boxes checked. i've always been curious; when does the question of "hype" vs. "the real thing" come to an end? is there an age? is there a specific event? a dollar amount? in a way, i hope it doesn't come to soon. i do enjoy this discussion. I think this is her biggest achievement. Art is supposed to illicit varied reactions and discussions. I personally found Tauba amazingly talented and yes, hyped. Then I saw her work firsthand and all the hype went away. The talent is immediately evident. Then when you see normal everyday people in a museum "ooh and aah" and the next person come along and say "how did she do that?" and finally someone that says "what is this?" She is like a magician in that way, no matter what the viewer is moved to reaction; amazingment, wonder, or denial. Art that entertains, and makes you think. |
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Post by origo on Mar 11, 2013 3:15:27 GMT -8
I guess you could state a lot of things as art then.
Here in Copenhagen we had a so called artist exhibiting goldfish in blenders at a museum, would people pull the trigger or not? Some said, what the hell is this, other claimed it was animal abuse, some called it clever and provoking, some just said it was lame.
Entertaining for some, certainly made people talk and think but art?
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Post by hellosir on Mar 11, 2013 5:25:54 GMT -8
Origo, I believe, absolutely, that would be art. I don't think it would be very lucrative but it is art, particularly if it was then preserved somehow. It's not art with legs to stand on in a gallery sale but yes I would consider it art because that person dared to do it and call it or claim it as art.
The point is that Tauba has creative ideas and is also technically trained to achieve those ideas in a visual format. I found it quite fascinating to speak to her because she reminds me more of an academic or scientist. She gets an idea and researches it and creates work that is a critique of her understanding of the theme or concept.
Take the recent weave painting. How is it a painting when clearly there is no paint used in it's creation. Anyone else could have thought to do that but did they? She has lots of ideas or views on things differently that are so simple and yet also not abstract enough that she clearly stays within the realm of art.
And thus the conversation continues...
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prpr
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Post by prpr on Mar 11, 2013 13:50:01 GMT -8
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guymo
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Post by guymo on Mar 11, 2013 14:45:04 GMT -8
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Post by hellosir on Mar 11, 2013 14:53:44 GMT -8
Tack for tipsar! Thanks for the heads up! Now I have an excuse to head back down to Malmo and Copenhagen! ;D |
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prpr
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Post by prpr on Mar 12, 2013 1:42:50 GMT -8
thanks! & damn, the weaves are the better lies (about painting), although the fold is better for their collection. |
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Post by dotdot on Mar 12, 2013 7:59:02 GMT -8
still it was an interesting debate.
shame it was short lived.
I'm sure many here have views but think at times they'd rather not get into a heated ..shouty thing.
certainly when it comes to any artist be they sought after or not.. emotions do come into it...when works become either impossible to come by or... worthless in some eyes.
(hey without emotion .. we'd have white walls.... think on..)
today's TA is someone else's ?? tomorrow. if you like if and can afford it ... do it - far be it for us to say don't or do.
as for that print... art... ? again ... art is many things to many people...
for us it's subjective most of the time.
when someone else's "objective" .. is thrown in .. invariably toys are thrown out of the proverbial pram.
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Post by samiam on Mar 15, 2013 12:40:19 GMT -8
Concerning the price of the woven piece that sold for $53,000 at charity auction, the real cost to the buyer of that piece is probably closer to $40,000. You arrive at that amount by looking at the current tax laws. If you can show you paid in excess of the real value of a piece (auction estimate $25,000) at a charitable auction then the additional amount over the real value ($28,000) is tax deductible. If the buyer lived in CA like me and is in the highest tax brackets (federal and state) then you can take about 45% off the $28,000 and add it to the $25,000 estimated value and the real cost is $40,400. The buyer can point to an auction price of $53,000, but in actuality only had to pay $40,000. It’s good to be rich. I understand the math, I’ll leave it to the experts to argue if it is art or not.
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avert
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Post by avert on Mar 15, 2013 22:30:19 GMT -8
Concerning the price of the woven piece that sold for $53,000 at charity auction, the real cost to the buyer of that piece is probably closer to $40,000. You arrive at that amount by looking at the current tax laws. If you can show you paid in excess of the real value of a piece (auction estimate $25,000) at a charitable auction then the additional amount over the real value ($28,000) is tax deductible. If the buyer lived in CA like me and is in the highest tax brackets (federal and state) then you can take about 45% off the $28,000 and add it to the $25,000 estimated value and the real cost is $40,400. The buyer can point to an auction price of $53,000, but in actuality only had to pay $40,000. It’s good to be rich. I understand the math, I’ll leave it to the experts to argue if it is art or not. so awesome. i love nerdy things like this. |
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guymo
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Posts: 70
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Post by guymo on Mar 16, 2013 2:36:40 GMT -8
Concerning the price of the woven piece that sold for $53,000 at charity auction, the real cost to the buyer of that piece is probably closer to $40,000. You arrive at that amount by looking at the current tax laws. If you can show you paid in excess of the real value of a piece (auction estimate $25,000) at a charitable auction then the additional amount over the real value ($28,000) is tax deductible. If the buyer lived in CA like me and is in the highest tax brackets (federal and state) then you can take about 45% off the $28,000 and add it to the $25,000 estimated value and the real cost is $40,400. The buyer can point to an auction price of $53,000, but in actuality only had to pay $40,000. It’s good to be rich. I understand the math, I’ll leave it to the experts to argue if it is art or not. so awesome. i love nerdy things like this. I think it stops seeming nerdy the day it saves you $13000. |
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prpr
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Posts: 90
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Post by prpr on Mar 18, 2013 10:04:53 GMT -8
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Post by mose on Mar 18, 2013 10:37:48 GMT -8
I believe they are still available due to the edition size being quite large.
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Post by artladval on Mar 18, 2013 10:41:23 GMT -8
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Post by volvic on Mar 18, 2013 12:23:54 GMT -8
for a signed edition 550 seems like a bargain, especially considering how amazing these things are.
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Post by outerborough on Mar 18, 2013 12:32:30 GMT -8
The edition size of [2,3] is large (1,000), but that's not the only reason that it is still available. I think a lot of people who hadn't previously known anything about conceptual art got interested in Auerbach with all the hype surrounding her fold paintings. Many aren't really trying to understand her work beyond the surface. And to them, [2,3] is just a "book," which doesn't fit into their hierarchy of art collecting (prints < works on paper < paintings). Personally, I think Auerbach's reconceptualized books are some of her most interesting works. But that's beside the point, because [2,3] isn't even a book. It's perhaps more apt to describe it as a sculpture, or a series of sculptures. Basically, what I'm saying is that expectations and difficulties in classifying the work probably play a big part in why [2,3] hasn't sold out yet. And if anyone likes Auerbach, but hasn't bought this because they don't collect books or they think that $550 is too expensive for a book, I suggest you reconsider. (ps. 100th post!) I believe they are still available due to the edition size being quite large. |
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prpr
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Post by prpr on Mar 18, 2013 23:34:37 GMT -8
it feels like six works in one, each individually bound and substantial (i was happily surprised at the physical size of these books - which is not necessarily apparent from the web). even given edition of 1000+100ap, i think the $550 price would be justified for each of the six bound works within [2,3] (rather than all six). one bookseller already has this set listed at $2000: goo.gl/ILHuf (highlighting that odd moment when you see the same thing priced for x and 4x at two different outlets on the internets). fwiw, i expect that will be a reasonable price, and then a deal, in due time. |
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Post by WillNyc on Mar 19, 2013 8:00:09 GMT -8
Congrats on the 100th post OuTeRbOrOuGh
I just want to add that thou we know publicly it was printed 1000pcs on the [2,3] book, I believe there is a bit less due to Hurricane Sandy destroying most of Printed Matter stock late last year.. I notice that when I went by 2 weeks ago they had most of their inventory of the books upstairs. So supply will be done soon..
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