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Post by epicfai on Apr 25, 2010 18:01:27 GMT -8
wow!
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Post by chadley on Apr 25, 2010 19:05:19 GMT -8
That is always one way to get more amazing art for your own collection. Make it. That piece is great. I wish I had those kind of skillz.
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Post by steveinca on Apr 30, 2010 10:02:36 GMT -8
thanks for the compliments, guys. Here's a video of some of the stills I took, put together with some music playing along
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Post by jediak on Apr 30, 2010 10:13:26 GMT -8
Really impressive, have you shared your work with Kris, shared techniques on how to get the job done and what not?
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Post by steveinca on Apr 30, 2010 10:46:42 GMT -8
Really impressive, have you shared your work with Kris, shared techniques on how to get the job done and what not? thanks, jedlak. Haven't spoken with Kris in a while. Last time we spoke was in regards to my homage piece to him. With all of the positive feedback from those who have seen this piece, my main focus right now is making my pieces distinctly different than Kris's pieces, yet in the same medium. I'm playing with some ideas, and i'm hoping they lead somewhere.
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Post by jediak on Apr 30, 2010 11:10:41 GMT -8
That's fantastic, I look forward to seeing future works.
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Post by joshualinergallery on Apr 30, 2010 14:28:01 GMT -8
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Post by chadley on Apr 30, 2010 14:57:27 GMT -8
I think joshualinergallery is really misunderstanding what steveinca set out to do with this piece of art. He is trying to learn a new art medium. Kris is the best in that medium. Therefore...yeah he admittedly used a lot of Kris's work heavily, but I don't think steveinca would even deny that, so it is silly to get all worked up about it. I will stop speaking for everyone else now but I just think that the whole point of the piece was to imitate, learn, and use this as a stepping stone to take his art in a different direction. Besides "imitation is the best form of flattery."
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Post by steveinca on Apr 30, 2010 15:10:51 GMT -8
There is so much I can say about this but will keep it brief and let the pictures below speak for themselves. I think this goes beyond what could be considered an homage to, or inspired by Kris Kuksi. The work goes way beyond derivative, it is a rip off, plain and simple. Does Kuksi own a medium? Of course not. But what you are doing here Steve goes way beyond working in the same medium. You are copying Kris' work and claiming it as your own. You are working in the same medium, with the same materials, the same composition, the same color palette and actually stealing his ideas (see detail images below) and claiming them as your own. Why you think you can call this your "art" is beyond me. For anyone that sees this and thinks that it is acceptable should consider how an artist who has spent years on his craft to have someone else come along, look at images of the original work and poorly attempt to duplicate it. As collectors and art enthusiasts this should not fly. Some have been quick to point fingers at other artists who are creating derivative work, yet this work which is so unoriginal and a blatant copy goes under the radar and does not get called out. Why is that? "Taking something from one man and making it worse is plagiarism" -George Moore "All artists are influenced not only by what has been painted before but also by what one's contemporaries are doing". (Raymond Leech) "We are all one. Our opinions may differ, but if you look deeply into the paintings you will see the influences and echoes of all the greats who have gone before". (Leonard Niles) "And as we let our own light shine we unconsciously give other people the permission to do the same". (Marianne Williamson) You are always the one person who has the biggest problem with my work. I understand that you have a vested $$$ interest in Kuksi's work. You see art through a lens filtered by dollar signs. You say my work is a "poor attempt to duplicate". Well, you seem to be the only one who feels it's "poor" and a "duplicate". As far as the things you pointed out that are similar: For example, the use of chains....i had this piece finished/not painted before Kris released pics of Eden. As far as using chains around necks: Anyone who kit bashes knows that this is an easy way to cover the point at which the head is attached. I've stated the fact that the inspiration behind it comes from Kris. My question to you is, why do you have such a problem with someone doing a similar art piece? What exactly do you have to lose and how are YOU affected by it? Kit bashing has been around for decades. It's how many movie special effects are conceived and created. I worked on the X files for several seasons years ago. The special effects guys were doing this since season 1. That was my initial exposure to this medium. Following your logic, the use of models, kit bashing, frames and other intricacies is reserved for Kris only. Meaning, any use of these materials, colors etc is a "rip off". A style of art is not owned by anyone. Would you say that Banksy is nothing but a rip off artist, seeing as how Blek was doing stencil art years ago? You say that my art is a rip off. Sorry you feel that way, but i'm going to keep doing my "poor" art work. In fact, you've kind of lit a fire under me with your post. Following your logic: Here is a pic of a part of my piece. I've taken a model elephant and used doll hands to make it appear as if this elephant has human hands. I now own this idea.....if anyone uses human hands with an elephant head, they are ripping me off and they have no right to do it....kind of ridiculous, right? I've never denied that Kris's work inspires me. In fact, with every post i make i reaffirm this fact. But to say that I should deny myself an enjoyable creative outlet that i just so happen to be good at, because it's similar in style to another artist's work, is not fair to me, and more so not fair to the art world. If artists didn't use other artist's work for inspiration, the art world would be one hell of a boring place.
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Post by sleepboy on Apr 30, 2010 15:58:06 GMT -8
Well, I think there is no question that Steve's work is based of Kris Kuksi. I personally don't have a problem with it unless he takes it out of his own home and markets or attempts to sell it as his own (you don't plan to do that do you Steve?). Posting it in the "Post Your Art" section may be a little misleading though perhaps for people who aren't familiar with Kris' work or with this forum. Perhaps a disclaimer at the bottom of each post?
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Post by sketchv on Apr 30, 2010 16:28:18 GMT -8
Perhaps a disclaimer at the bottom of each post? That might not be a bad idea. Being impartial and unfamiliar with the OG artist's name (Kuksi), that's who I thought it was having seen some of his stuff in Juxtapoz.
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Post by evilchoy on Apr 30, 2010 16:37:52 GMT -8
I think I must say I have had a problem with this since the first piece and the fact that on the other board it seems like you are contemplating either putting in a show or doing a similar piece for a show really is weird. You make valid point and I would say their are many similar artist right now: Haslam and stella im hultberg Cherri woods and Candice Tripp Walt Hall and Himself Half of the Distinction Line up They still have a unique voice we can tell the different. There has been a few times that people have noticed your pictures and have commented how great your kuksi is and a few of us knew it wasn't his but yours. And you never spoke up...only when you wanted more Karma.... Listen your are talented figure out a different way to do it, make landscape, make more action than a portrait, use color, something, don't do gothic more horror, steampunk, urban, something. If you want us to stop talking about then have Kuksi weigh in. Many of our leaders in this thing of ours copy from the master painting the image until they perfect the technique and then make it their own, that is what you did... look at Ron.. You can do this medium too....just don't cheapen what Kris has worked hard to do... banksyforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=artwork&thread=53040&page=1
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Post by commandax on Apr 30, 2010 18:41:47 GMT -8
You make valid point and I would say their are many similar artist right now: Haslam and stella im hultberg Cherri woods and Candice Tripp Not to sidetrack the conversation, but I think these two comparisons are way off base. I would never mistake these pairings for each other, and I speak as someone who owns nothing by any of these artists.
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prettypikey
Junior Member
Art Doesn't Help People, People Help People.
Posts: 71
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Post by prettypikey on Apr 30, 2010 20:16:34 GMT -8
Michelangelo and Raphael.
Braque and Picasso.
Kuksi and Steveinca?
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Post by evilchoy on Apr 30, 2010 20:24:34 GMT -8
You make valid point and I would say their are many similar artist right now: Haslam and stella im hultberg Cherri woods and Candice Tripp Not to sidetrack the conversation, but I think these two comparisons are way off base. I would never mistake these pairings for each other, and I speak as someone who owns nothing by any of these artists. You are telling me that Haslam and Hultberg and Cherri Woods and Candice Tripp are not similar but each unique. I own one of each of the later and love them dearly but side by side it is like they went to the same disenfranchised school of post feminist study for kids who are fascinated with morbid issues, or something like that but again they each have a unique voice... In terms of Haslam and Hultberg I have spent many hours talking with more than one gallery owner who have pointed out their similarities and see nothing wrong, similar but different. this is not negative implication! Sorry you can't see how they would fit in the same category but I would know which ones were different at the drop of a hat but they are cut from the same cloth. Steve's piece does not have a unique voice and could possibly be confused and has been for a Kuksi.... Kudos to Steve for recreating this he now has to take it into a new direction....
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Post by evilchoy on Apr 30, 2010 20:41:03 GMT -8
Michelangelo and Raphael. Braque and Picasso. Kuksi and Steveinca? Hey all you art students out there I might be wrong but didn't Braque and Picasso work together and encouraged each other... And why leave out Leonardo from the list but the three were known friends and sometimes rivals but they also learned from each other and Raphael traveled to Venice or Florence to study with Michaelangelo for years. There is a history... I see alot of Chet Zar in Gene Guynn and there should be since they both work together but again have such a unique voice... A few emails doesn't give you the right....
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Post by steveinca on Apr 30, 2010 20:43:05 GMT -8
I'm done defending myself, guys. Every post that i've made in regards to this piece has included the word "Kuksi" in it. Not sure how much more clear i can be in that my work is inspired by Kuksi.
Josh, the only time you post on here is to try and sell something, purely financially motivated. Therefore, no offense, but to me your opinion doesn't matter. Your motivation is strictly financial. You see dollar signs first and foremost in art, I see expressionism with no limitations or rules whatsoever. It's only natural for you, after all your livelihood depends on it. I'm not saying I don't acknowledge all you've done for this little art community of ours, but i'm also aware that you're a businessman. The fact that you called my work "poor" is a very telling sign of your character. I don't care how similar, terrible or whatever someone's art is compared to a master's, I'd never put them down and call it "poor", when the consensus is clear that it's not. I wonder, are the 30 or so PM's i received and declined about commissions via various art forums a reflection of how "poor" my piece is?
You keep on doing what you do, and i'll do the same. My motivation behind creating this piece was strictly for my own enjoyment and in search of a feeling of accomplishment, setting a goal and achieving it. I hope to eventually find my own unique style in this same medium that distinctly separates my work from Kris's. During my college years, I was contemplating a change in my major midway through my four years. A professor, who later became a good friend of mine, told me to always do what your heart desires, and the rest will work out. I've always followed that advice, and will continue to do so regardless of the opinions of others. As of right now, my heart and my mind tell me to keep creating, so I will.
Artchival community, I consider many of you friends of mine. I hate drama, and don't want to put any of you, especially Hung, in a strange place/predicament, feeling like you have to take sides. So, i'll refrain from posting any of my work on here and continue to contribute to this site in a positive way. Josh, looking forward to your next post about the next show you're putting on.
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prettypikey
Junior Member
Art Doesn't Help People, People Help People.
Posts: 71
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Post by prettypikey on Apr 30, 2010 21:19:07 GMT -8
Michelangelo and Raphael. Braque and Picasso. Kuksi and Steveinca? Hey all you art students out there I might be wrong but didn't Braque and Picasso work together and encouraged each other... And why leave out Leonardo from the list but the three were known friends and sometimes rivals but they also learned from each other and Raphael traveled to Venice or Florence to study with Michaelangelo for years. There is a history... I see alot of Chet Zar in Gene Guynn and there should be since they both work together but again have such a unique voice... A few emails doesn't give you the right.... Honestly, I posted that to be a smart ass. I didn't really think too far into the metaphorical implications of it all. Just making light of the situation, calm down. I'm in favor of artist's studying and learning from each other. The play-by-play breakdown that started this all seemed unnecessary/funny to me, so I mocked it.
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Post by gilsteph on May 1, 2010 0:57:40 GMT -8
Wow....I cant believe the attack on Steve. Every time I have seen Steve post images (especially at the beginning) he made it VERY clear it was a homage to Kris. There are lots of artists that are inspired/driven by artists from the past. Warhol must have inspired 100s of artists (Banksys Kates!).
Steve please keep on doing what you are doing and I hope one day you find your unique voice and make it as a truely great artist. Please keep posting pictures of your work.
My feeling we should encourage, support and help on this forum and not attack and condemn people who have clearly put in 100s of hours of hard work into something they love.
Good artists borrow. Great artists steal. (Pablo Picasso)
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Post by evilchoy on May 1, 2010 4:43:57 GMT -8
Hey all you art students out there I might be wrong but didn't Braque and Picasso work together and encouraged each other... And why leave out Leonardo from the list but the three were known friends and sometimes rivals but they also learned from each other and Raphael traveled to Venice or Florence to study with Michaelangelo for years. There is a history... I see alot of Chet Zar in Gene Guynn and there should be since they both work together but again have such a unique voice... A few emails doesn't give you the right.... Honestly, I posted that to be a smart ass. I didn't really think too far into the metaphorical implications of it all. Just making light of the situation, calm down. I'm in favor of artist's studying and learning from each other. The play-by-play breakdown that started this all seemed unnecessary/funny to me, so I mocked it. www.newyorker.com/archive/2004/11/22/041122fa_fact?currentPage=1I guess I don't understand your sense of humor sorry... I hate the fact the we can't have discussions on this board with people throwing in smartass remarks or asking people to move on. In regards to Steve he knows that he is talented and he did a spot on copy and that he has the skills to do this thing but to allege to linear who is sometimes a pain but fair guy that it all comes down to money come on... He is standing up for Kuksi, cause Kuksi probably didn't want to get involved personally, cause he is a nice guy. My respect goes out to Linear for defending one of his artists.
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Post by evilchoy on May 1, 2010 4:52:53 GMT -8
Wow....I cant believe the attack on Steve. Every time I have seen Steve post images (especially at the beginning) he made it VERY clear it was a homage to Kris. There are lots of artists that are inspired/driven by artists from the past. Warhol must have inspired 100s of artists (Banksys Kates!). Steve please keep on doing what you are doing and I hope one day you find your unique voice and make it as a truely great artist. Please keep posting pictures of your work. My feeling we should encourage, support and help on this forum and not attack and condemn people who have clearly put in 100s of hours of hard work into something they love. Good artists borrow. Great artists steal. (Pablo Picasso) I think you mean T.S. Eliot" "One of the surest tests [of the superiority or inferiority of a poet] is the way in which a poet borrows. Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different. The good poet welds his theft into a whole of feeling which is unique, utterly different than that from which it is torn; the bad poet throws it into something which has no cohesion. A good poet will usually borrow from authors remote in time, or alien in language, or diverse in interest." Great message board members cut and paste..... Picasso never said it but could have: nancyprager.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/good-poets-borrow-great-poets-steal/ This is a good read...
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Post by jediak on May 1, 2010 8:17:06 GMT -8
I just want to weigh in here and say I think it was a real low blow to say Josh is seeing this through $$$ signs. Clearly the man is in this for the love of art and while there is a difference of opinions here I think even with Josh’s criticisms of the work, his passion for art and the artists we discuss here should never be questioned. The fact that he has money invested in this could be interpreted as he is that much more passionate if anything. I have already stated that I think Steve’s work is impressive so I don’t think my feelings take anything away from that.
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Post by screenname1 on May 1, 2010 8:53:57 GMT -8
I had to create an account to chime in because I feel so strongly about this:
I am a young artist that one day would like to show in galleries. As a young artist I know that there is only one way to be successful; hard work.
Kris Kuksi is an artist that has worked tirelessly at innovating and perfecting a craft that is 100% unique. Unlike any other art I have ever seen. This came about through an idea that progressed and evolved into the masterful work that he creates today. Yes people have "kit bashed" before, but never like this. The reason everyone (including steveinca) loves Kuksi's work is because it is so unique. And that did not come from him copying it or recreating from some other artists' work.
It took years and years of hard work and creativity to evolve into what you see today.
You steveinca are completely missing the point of why people are upset. You didn't work for years to develop this, Kris did. It is not "hard work" to recreate something or copy something, it is just work. You do not deserve to call these works of art yours.
If you transcribe a William Shakespeare play word for word, although there are many words and sentences to write, it is not hard work... it is just work. And after you copy those beautiful words in your own handwriting does that make it your play? On the contrary, to study words and literature for years and years - conceive and write a play as good as a Shakespeare with your own imagination, that is a different story... that is a culmination of hard work. Then, and only then, it is truly yours.
I don't understand how you can be proud of something that you did not truly work hard to create, you simply worked to create.
By calling this your "art" you are taking credit for years and years of Kris Kuksi's hard work. That is why people are upset.
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Post by commandax on May 1, 2010 9:00:31 GMT -8
I think Josh Liner's frustration stems from the fact that Steve actually has shown his Kuksi-homage work in the past, [url=http://forums.kidrobot.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=120866&start=0 ]at the Hive[/url]. While I don't have a problem with anyone who makes derivative work solely for their own enjoyment, I feel taking it into a sales environment is crossing the line. It does look like Steve intends to show this piece at the Hive next month .
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Post by evilchoy on May 1, 2010 9:28:13 GMT -8
You tried to sell that for 10.5k damm and I thought MBW was brazen...
I wonder why you didn't post on here that you were putting that piece in a show in 2008?
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